My Thoughts on HGH...

[Viking]

Ask away, Brother! I'm sure Jano would be willing to lend his expertise here for the members.

Awesome, thanks race. Janoshik, How in the world do the Grey Tops test at 100% purity. It's just hard to believe that a china hgh is 100% pure. Any thoughts

 

[janoshik]

OK, so. It is my opinion that Pharma factories based in China are responsible for producing the high quality "Generic" HGH we have been testing. I'm thinking that there are a ton of kits that find it's way out the back doors and end up here as the generics that are testing as well (or better) than Pharma. I know you work with, at least, one factory in China. Would you agree with my opinion, or am I way off base.

I think generic factories, which don't manufacture anything for pharma market, as well, which honestly surprised me too.

It certainly used to be the case with kits finding their way outta backdoor - but as far as I know - and I certainly don't claim to know everything - at least one factory was forced to stop such endeavors by the authorities and others were warned as well. This makes me think that great majority of high quality HGH is not from this source. But that's just an opinion of mine and I might be wrong.

There's this one, very consistent generic, that is rumored to be from pharma factory, but I can't tell for sure.

 

[janoshik]

Awesome, thanks race. Janoshik, How in the world do the Grey Tops test at 100% purity. It's just hard to believe that a china hgh is 100% pure. Any thoughts

They, of course, are not 100% purity - nothing is - but it means that the impurities were below my level of detection.

Considering the fact that impurities in Seros were not under that level I don't think that it's too much of an issue.

I could've shot in 10 times the amount of HGH, so every impurity would be there 10 times higher as well and would probably be detected, but I did not see a point in doing that. Also, doing that would make results less reliable for multiple reasons.

I don't think it matters much if they are 99.999 or 100% - the main point of those tests was to compare samples reliably under same conditions and adhere to testing which is done on real pharmaceutical samples. Not find minute impurities at all costs.





An interesting thing - I've tested another sample that was 100% as well, even when 10 times the usual amount was tested for impurities. So it had contained less than 0.001% of impurities.

However, the dimer was undetectable with this sample as well, compared to Grey Tops - which had higher dimer than Seros.

This sample was sent to me as unknown. After I had inquired which pharma it was (because no generic AND pharma I have tested up until then) it was revealed to me it was Chinese pharma.

Just food for thought.





Oh, also, the Euro Pharma standard I've used for PM.com testing was 100%.

 

[Viking]

They, of course, are not 100% purity - nothing is - but it means that the impurities were below my level of detection.

Considering the fact that impurities in Seros were not under that level I don't think that it's too much of an issue.

I could've shot in 10 times the amount of HGH, so every impurity would be there 10 times higher as well and would probably be detected, but I did not see a point in doing that. Also, doing that would make results less reliable for multiple reasons.

I don't think it matters much if they are 99.999 or 100% - the main point of those tests was to compare samples reliably under same conditions and adhere to testing which is done on real pharmaceutical samples. Not find minute impurities at all costs.





An interesting thing - I've tested another sample that was 100% as well, even when 10 times the usual amount was tested for impurities. So it had contained less than 0.001% of impurities.

However, the dimer was undetectable with this sample as well, compared to Grey Tops - which had higher dimer than Seros.

This sample was sent to me as unknown. After I had inquired which pharma it was (because no generic AND pharma I have tested up until then) it was revealed to me it was Chinese pharma.

Just food for thought.





Oh, also, the Euro Pharma standard I've used for PM.com testing was 100%.

OK, that makes sense! Although, a generic with that low of a level of impurities seems counterintuitive to the argument that these generics are not made in a pharma factory. If a factory is large enough to produce such a pure HGH, wouldn't you think they would be on the authorities radar? Or is the production of HGH legal in China?

 

[janoshik]

OK, that makes sense! Although, a generic with that low of a level of impurities seems counterintuitive to the argument that these generics are not made in a pharma factory. If a factory is large enough to produce such a pure HGH, wouldn't you think they would be on the authorities radar? Or is the production of HGH legal in China?

A friend of mine tells me that AAS production is legal in China, so my guess would be that HGH is no issue.

 

[AnaSCI]

A friend of mine tells me that AAS production is legal in China, so my guess would be that HGH is no issue.

I believe there are different laws/regulations in China regarding AAS and HGH production.

I would have to look way back through emails but I believe IP and I spoke of this many years back.

 

[janoshik]

Could be - I'm only guessing there.

 

[get it in ya]

I truly believe people will have their own preference on when and how much to inject. Then they will try to come up with reasons (or studies, or Bro-science, etc.) to back their decision. I was guilty of the same thing when I began using HGH years ago. After spending over $400 dollars for 3 kits, I wanted to take the least amount I could get away with to make it last. I settled on 4iu's per day. As I mentioned previously, my coach at the time was Alex Azarian (RIP), who advised me to raise my dose to 6iu's per day for maximum results.

I was listening to a Podcast recently over on Advices Radio called Blood, Sweat & Gear. It features Scott McNally, Skip Hill and someone who calls himself S2H (apparently his handle on a number of forums). It was another of those discussions about timing of HGH injections. S2H mentioned a number of times that he preferred EOD (every other day) injections. Aside from his feeling that it would help avoid the potential side effects of HGH, his argument was "I don't know, I just think it just works better for me". So.....

My opinion is this. I do not ever remember seeing any package inserts for Pharma HGH advising people to inject EOD. I have not heard of one instance where a Dr. prescribing HGH to a patient has recommended EOD injections. So, where do these things come from?

I usually subscribe to the "Just Get It In Ya" theory. Whether you are talking about AAS, food, even training. Just Do IT! Do you really believe you will get more of a benefit injecting Test E right before training? (of course, maybe you will if we were talking TNE, but that is a different discussion.) As far as HGH is concerned, I'm not sure if it is true. I can be open to the possibility that injecting 2iu's an hour before training and 2iu's an hour after training may yield some benefit. Adding your 2iu's first thing in the morning pre-cardio, now we may be on to something. I believe the half-life of HGH is 4 hours. So, would that make it reasonable to inject 2iu's every 4 hours? Or is it more realistic to inject the entire 12iu's once per day to mimic the bodies natural pulse? See where I'm going with this?

At the end of the day, people will choose what they want to believe, then they will find reasons for their decisions!

"just get it in ya" lol. great thread:headbang:

 

[kinglewy]

I believe there are different laws/regulations in China regarding AAS and HGH production.

I would have to look way back through emails but I believe IP and I spoke of this many years back.

I haven't been around as long as a lot of guys but long enough to see a strange trend with the Chinese and gh....anyone else notice how they let a very good generic out for a time and then all of sudden there are "supply" problems and good growth is hard to find? I've watched the scenario play out a few times over. Strange....someone once (cant remember who) on PM speculated that the Chinese government shuts them down periodically when the "Triads" or whatever organized crime outfit doesn't pay the money for them to look the other way.
The blacks are so good right now im just waiting for the eventual supply issues....if I had the funds id stock up.

 

[Racepicks]

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, the Sponsors marketing HGH have little or no control of their products. They contact (or are contacted by) a source in China. They are given a price list of a few different grades of HGH. This is an example:

(these are not actual prices, tops, or Serums/Purity)

Here is our best price for generic HGH 100iu/kit
$80/kit----Green Tops - 28 - 36ng/ml 99% purity
$70/kit----Yellow Tops - 22 - 28ng/ml 96% purity
$60/kit----Brown Tops - 16 - 22mg/ml 94% purity

An aspiring Sponsor decides he wants to maximize his profit, so he chooses Yellow Tops.

The above example is the easy part. The sponsor runs into difficulty when he sends his funds to the Source. How many kits arrive that is actually as advertised? How many of the kits are bunk? Remember, many of these Chinese Sources actually send the product from China to the Sponsor's customers. The Sponsor never touches the kits and does not realizes his product is bunk (or not as good as he stated).

Continued with next post

 

[Racepicks]

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, the Sponsors marketing HGH have little or no control of their products. They contact (or are contacted by) a source in China. They are given a price list of a few different grades of HGH. This is an example:

(these are not actual prices, tops, or Serums/Purity)

Here is our best price for generic HGH 100iu/kit
$80/kit----Green Tops - 28 - 36ng/ml 99% purity
$70/kit----Yellow Tops - 22 - 28ng/ml 96% purity
$60/kit----Brown Tops - 16 - 22mg/ml 94% purity

An aspiring Sponsor decides he wants to maximize his profit, so he chooses Yellow Tops.

The above example is the easy part. The sponsor runs into difficulty when he sends his funds to the Source. How many kits arrive that is actually as advertised? How many of the kits are bunk? Remember, many of these Chinese Sources actually send the product from China to the Sponsor's customers. The Sponsor never touches the kits and does not realizes his product is bunk (or not as good as he stated).

Continued with next post

Also, keep in mind that, these Chinese Sources also offer the new Sponsor to "Mix and Match" their HGH order. As an example, of a Sponsor was to purchase 100 kits, he can request 60 kits of the "Brown Tops", 30 kits of the "Yellow Tops" and 10 kits of the "Green Tops". This way, each 100iu kit would contain 60iu's of "16 to 22ng/ml" product, 30iu's of "22 to 28ng/ml" product, and 10iu's of "28 to 36ng/ml" product. Obviously, this is fully understood by a potentially shady Sponsor.

Continues with next post

 

[Racepicks]

Also, keep in mind that, these Chinese Sources also offer the new Sponsor to "Mix and Match" their HGH order. As an example, of a Sponsor was to purchase 100 kits, he can request 60 kits of the "Brown Tops", 30 kits of the "Yellow Tops" and 10 kits of the "Green Tops". This way, each 100iu kit would contain 60iu's of "16 to 22ng/ml" product, 30iu's of "22 to 28ng/ml" product, and 10iu's of "28 to 36ng/ml" product. Obviously, this is fully understood by a potentially shady Sponsor.

Continues with next post

Nothing I am posting is "Breaking News", or secret information. As a matter of fact, I believe the guys who have been around for a while are probably yawning right about now. That being said, in my 7 years frequenting these boards, I've never seen it posted. SO...........

Finding a source is not a problem, places like Alibaba and other Chinese internet sites are quite easy to find. The problem is finding a "GOOD" HGH source. One of the best HGH sponsors on these boards, who will remain anonymous, had a very good HGH source. Unfortunately, that source retired, forcing this Sponsor to scramble to locate another source. Even more unfortunate for him, the new source provided him with shit (No HGH at all). I and others, serum tested his product at .3ng/ml, which sent his successful business to a screeching halt.

Finding a good HGH source is not the only headache, far from it, next post I will explain what may be the biggest problem for potential AND EXISTING sponsors.

Continued with next post

 

[odin]

I've been around for over 10 years and even though I never really thought about it, it does make sense. Thanks for taking the time racepicks. I have a question, what do the sponsor gain by giving different strength hgh like you said. I know to save money but why 60 30 10 iu in 100 iu kit.

 

[Racepicks]

I've been around for over 10 years and even though I never really thought about it, it does make sense. Thanks for taking the time racepicks. I have a question, what do the sponsor gain by giving different strength hgh like you said. I know to save money but why 60 30 10 iu in 100 iu kit.

Keep in mind, what I described is only a theoretical example. I'm not sure at all that sponsors actually do what I posted but the Chinese sources do offer the option of mixing the quality. We have discussed over on ProMuscle the possibility of this happening, how else can you explain why some vials serum test high and some test bunk, from the same kit?

Furthermore, if the option to order different quality product does exist, couldn't a sponsor begin by sending his best quality product first? Let people test, then when he attains a good rep, begin sending a few middle or low end product?

 

[Racepicks]

OK...Why so long to post again??? I had a post all crafted and ready to go. I had serious reservations about the security, not only the sponsors, but the entire board. The last thing I want to do is bring any unwanted heat. So....I will post in the VIP section. For all of you who want access, SUPPORT this Forum. Post everyday. Good quality posts. PM me about why you feel you are a VIP, and if I agree, I will go to bat for you! We need the best to be the best!!

 

[Racepicks]

Hard to believe it has been almost 1 year since I posted on this thread. Looking back to everything that transpired since then, I'm happy to be posting here again.
In any event, here's what I've been thinking:

IS HGH WORTH THE MONEY?

Hmmm, That's a tough one!

Let me start by saying that I have been a huge proponent of HGH since 2009. I'm beginning to change my views on it's effectiveness. Before I start, I would like to see where the rest of you fall on this issue.

Do you think HGH is the be all, end all? Or is it overrated?

 

[Nattydread]

I have never been a big gh guy. But when I’ve used it I have loved it. I’ve ran
Pharma and generic and have been happy with both. To be 100 percent honest I do prefer to use pharma cause I felt it worked better for me. My issue is that for the cost of pharma I would rather go without gh and spend that money elsewhere

 

[Racepicks]

That is an interesting observation, Natty. I'm not in 100% agreement, but I think you're more right than wrong.

Look, I came up in this HGH craze back when it was relatively new. I got caught up in the wave. GH15 was talking about HGH being the ultimate weapon in your war chest!! Remember?? He said that the combination of HGH and pineapple would be so powerful that you could actually see the change daily. All the Trainers were giving it to their Pros and they all believed it was a gamechanger.

Of course, this would allow all of us to eat what we wanted, take our foot off the gas pedal while training, and win any local competition we chose to enter, right???......Well, NO!

Let me ask you a question. Why do professional sports athletes use HGH? For it's medicinal value. HGH helps with recovery from injury. Hence, it's anti-aging effect. I have yet to hear of an athlete point to it's muscle building effect.

For bodybuilding, I firmly believe that the benefit is post-training recovery, as well as it's fat burning abilities.

As far as Generic vs. Pharma, I have never heard any convincing evidence that a lab tested (here on Anasci) Generic is inferior to a Pharma. All these "folded differently" theories are flawed. I will be back to expand on my thoughts as they relate to Generic vs. Pharma.

Come on Guys, step up and tell me why I'm wrong!:sniper:

 

[odin]

Hard to believe it has been almost 1 year since I posted on this thread. Looking back to everything that transpired since then, I'm happy to be posting here again.
In any event, here's what I've been thinking:

IS HGH WORTH THE MONEY?

Hmmm, That's a tough one!

Let me start by saying that I have been a huge proponent of HGH since 2009. I'm beginning to change my views on it's effectiveness. Before I start, I would like to see where the rest of you fall on this issue.

Do you think HGH is the be all, end all? Or is it overrated?

A good way of accessing something is using it alone. I have used hgh alone when I came off and it helps but it doesn't give the gains that aas can or anywhere close. So for guys on a budget I think keep it simple. Some test and an oral will change someone much more than hgh and cost a fraction of the price.

HGH does have it's uses though and for competitors needing that extra edge it is worthwhile. The same for people concerned with injuries, recovery and even aging. It also shines when using aas, slin and consuming high calories and will help with body composition as you grow. So hgh definitely has many uses and I do think if someone is in a comfortable financial position it is worth the cost.

The other side of the coin is I also see guys using large amounts and they barely change over time and I often think was it worth all that cost. It's the same as anything some guys respond better than others and some make better use of things. The problem with hgh and especially pharm grade it costs so much so I think it's hard to justify the price unless it transforms you or you are that wealthy the cost meaning nothing to you. I have come across young guys struggling financially as they are spending a few $100 on hgh every month and sometimes I think it is a waste. It seems these days it is a must if you want to compete at a high level though.

So to answer your question I think it can be both but it depends who is using it. It's definitely not the be all, end all but it is good when combined with everything else.

 

[Racepicks]

A good way of accessing something is using it alone. I have used hgh alone when I came off and it helps but it doesn't give the gains that aas can or anywhere close. So for guys on a budget I think keep it simple. Some test and an oral will change someone much more than hgh and cost a fraction of the price.

HGH does have it's uses though and for competitors needing that extra edge it is worthwhile. The same for people concerned with injuries, recovery and even aging. It also shines when using aas, slin and consuming high calories and will help with body composition as you grow. So hgh definitely has many uses and I do think if someone is in a comfortable financial position it is worth the cost.

The other side of the coin is I also see guys using large amounts and they barely change over time and I often think was it worth all that cost. It's the same as anything some guys respond better than others and some make better use of things. The problem with hgh and especially pharm grade it costs so much so I think it's hard to justify the price unless it transforms you or you are that wealthy the cost meaning nothing to you. I have come across young guys struggling financially as they are spending a few $100 on hgh every month and sometimes I think it is a waste. It seems these days it is a must if you want to compete at a high level though.

So to answer your question I think it can be both but it depends who is using it. It's definitely not the be all, end all but it is good when combined with everything else.

Yes, well said. That is pretty much where I fall on the subject. I wonder how people can tell if the HGH is making a difference when they are using 5 different compounds and a couple of orals. I believe much of it is psychosomatic. They so want the HGH to make a difference, their minds begin to play tricks on them.