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My Thoughts on HGH...
- Thread starter Racepicks
- Start date
Thanks RP, for the kind words. That said, I'm far from an advanced HGH user. I still read up and try to learn just like everybody else. Probably almost everybody here may have used more HGH than I have. The last time I ran HGH was probably in 2008/9. I've only ever used blue tops and kefei's prior to ORD, and then Hyges post-ORD. I've definitely never had the pleasure of using pharm grade, and probably never will
I've known so many people who have used both, and the reactions vary user to user. I kind of chalk it up to a person who does well and bloats on carbs vs. a person who doesn't. It seems that some HGH users just bloat much easier than other users. That said, it depends on other factors like diet, whether at the time they are dieting and less bloated from eating less calories versus bulking and eating a shit ton of calories. The dosage obviously plays a factor too as well.
I knew a lot of guys who were paying like $400 per kit from a pharmacy here in town back in the 90's, and some got really water retented, and others grew like weeds and had only minimal water retention. Both were the same exact HGH from the same exact pharmacy. I think this same thing also happens with Chinese generics as well, as noted above...and obviously the dimer content that Jano mentioned.
As for other benefits, I had improved sleeping and rest (though I was sleepy at time during work), improved hair and skin, seemed to be able to eat what I wanted and had less fat gain (especially when taken with anavar or tren), better recovery from workouts, and more specifically to your question....it did give more of a "3-D look" or appearance...or fuller look I guess you could call it. It's hard to described unless you have used it I guess. That being said, I know some monsters who don't think HGH adds anything. I think you really have to look at HGH as long-term for it's most optimal benefits (not saying it doesn't work short-term either).
Back when I was using generic blue tops prior to ORD, I had a few kits that swole me up and my joints hurt real bad for the first month or two. One kit I had, it swole my feet up almost within days and I could not even fit my shoes on. That was a strong ass kit, but I always wondered if it were the HGH that did it, or if it was somehow real HGH with higher consituents/impurities. I had real HGH that didn't do this, so even for myself, it was always a question I had. Over the many years, and thanks to the testing and lab work, I think a lot of the HGH is real, but the sides most get are from the dimer/impurities.
That said, I'm open for learning so if others have different ideas, please bring it on
I think someone else mentioned it, generic will give you the best bang for your buck. If you choose the right Generic.
BINGO!!
I have maintained all along that the BEST "Generic" HGH found it's way out the back door of a Chinese Pharma Facility.
janoshik
AnaSCI Approved Tester
I've tested Seros and Humatrope. Humatrope being the inferior product, but I can't judge by how much, because in the meantime my methods had changed a little bit. Only products tested under exactly the same conditions should be compared.
Maybe some other brands as well, but that was long ago therefore, as I had written above, they wouldn't be comparable.
Regarding the water retention - I honestly have no idea, but it appears that way. Ie products with higher dimer have more trouble with higher water retention.
However, that could be also just a correlation - products with low dimer tend to be manufactured with better quality control and therefore it can be assumed that there might also be some other impurity that was eliminated, that is contained within other products, where the QC is not as meticulous.
So is it dimer? Is it some impurity in minute amount? Or is it overdosing of vials causing sides?
Maybe sometime we will find out.
But for our purposes, knowing that there is a correlation between dimer and water retention is enough... for now
I recently posted on ProMuscle that I had an Associates Degree in HGH, and I was going to explain over here on Anasci. Here is the first installment:
When you apply for a job, they ask if you have certain educational requirements or, "Commensurate Experience". Well, I do not have an educational background, but I do have experience. The cynics will say, "Bro, you Serum Tested HGH, PLEASE!". Yes, but that testing opened the door to conversations with Sponsors that is definitely "commensurate". I'm going to share some of the things that I have learned. It opened my eyes. Obviously, I need to use discretion to protect our Sponsors. I can not reveal procedures and methods that will put any of us in jeopardy.
When you apply for a job, they ask if you have certain educational requirements or, "Commensurate Experience". Well, I do not have an educational background, but I do have experience. The cynics will say, "Bro, you Serum Tested HGH, PLEASE!". Yes, but that testing opened the door to conversations with Sponsors that is definitely "commensurate". I'm going to share some of the things that I have learned. It opened my eyes. Obviously, I need to use discretion to protect our Sponsors. I can not reveal procedures and methods that will put any of us in jeopardy.
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So the dimer, is it like d-dimer like what ud test for if u had a blood clot? Or what dimer are we talkin about here? What exactly does the dimer do to u? Cause water retention? Or more?
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Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
janoshik
AnaSCI Approved Tester
No Sir, totally different chemical.
Dimer is a generic name for two identical molecules bound together.
In D-dimer it's two d fragments of fibrin (fibrin is a protein involved in creating blood clots).
The dimer we are talking about here it is two molecules of HGH bound together.
The things we know about dimer:
- it has lower activity than normal monomeric HGH
- its levels correlate with quality of the HGH, so less dimer usually means less sides, water retention being among them
Attachments
OK....Jano, are you at all familiar with the purification process of HGH? If so, maybe you can keep me honest. I have been told that there are multiple steps in the purification process. I want to say three or four. Each is more expensive. It is a fact that most raw producers skip the last two steps to increase their profit, Obviously, Pharma skips no steps. Is this something you can expand on? Would taking these shortcuts increase dimers, etc?
janoshik
AnaSCI Approved Tester
Well, to be honest I'm not entirely sure how HGH is purified on industrial scale.
I do have a pretty good idea though and can tell how it's done in labs (and the same is imo scaled up for industry).
1. E.Coli culture is centrifugated in order to concentrate it.
2. after ecoli cells are concentrated protease inhibitors are added (proteases are enzymes which digest proteins - HGH among them, so you want them inactive. proteases are in every living cells)
3. you subject the ecoli cells to strong ultrasonic pulses, while cooling them (strong ultrasound heats stuff up). this releases the HGH (and everything else) from within the cells
4. you centrifugate the resulting solution in order to remove debris from cells
now these are pretty much impossible to skip and are very inexpensive.
where I think money are being saved (or the know how might be missing) is the following:
5. hplc runs with various techniques
usually it goes like this:
A) affinity chromatography -> without going too much into details, this separates proteins from the rest of the mess (DNA, phopholipids etc)
B) ion-exchange chromatography -> this is cheap technique for separating hgh from the bulk of other proteins from the previous step
C) are other fine-tuning up techniques run afterwards - such as SEC-HPLC, ultrafiltration (dialysis)
now, out of those, it's practically possible to skip only the last step, C, which would result in high DIMER.
trying to save up time on B is also possible, and could result in higher impurity, but I don't think it's done.
I've been paid to consult an unnamed factory in china, which wanted to increase the quality of their hormone and had a lot of money to spare (and was not skipping anything) - the main hiccup in their purity was not the purification or manufacture.
The hardest part, technologically, is the filling up the vials without at least a tiny bit of the hormone aggregating (forming dimers) or degrading (forming impurities).
I do have a pretty good idea though and can tell how it's done in labs (and the same is imo scaled up for industry).
1. E.Coli culture is centrifugated in order to concentrate it.
2. after ecoli cells are concentrated protease inhibitors are added (proteases are enzymes which digest proteins - HGH among them, so you want them inactive. proteases are in every living cells)
3. you subject the ecoli cells to strong ultrasonic pulses, while cooling them (strong ultrasound heats stuff up). this releases the HGH (and everything else) from within the cells
4. you centrifugate the resulting solution in order to remove debris from cells
now these are pretty much impossible to skip and are very inexpensive.
where I think money are being saved (or the know how might be missing) is the following:
5. hplc runs with various techniques
usually it goes like this:
A) affinity chromatography -> without going too much into details, this separates proteins from the rest of the mess (DNA, phopholipids etc)
B) ion-exchange chromatography -> this is cheap technique for separating hgh from the bulk of other proteins from the previous step
C) are other fine-tuning up techniques run afterwards - such as SEC-HPLC, ultrafiltration (dialysis)
now, out of those, it's practically possible to skip only the last step, C, which would result in high DIMER.
trying to save up time on B is also possible, and could result in higher impurity, but I don't think it's done.
I've been paid to consult an unnamed factory in china, which wanted to increase the quality of their hormone and had a lot of money to spare (and was not skipping anything) - the main hiccup in their purity was not the purification or manufacture.
The hardest part, technologically, is the filling up the vials without at least a tiny bit of the hormone aggregating (forming dimers) or degrading (forming impurities).
Ask away, Brother! I'm sure Jano would be willing to lend his expertise here for the members.
Expand on this a little, Jano! is the aggregation being caused by, let's say, less than desirable sanitary conditions, or by the damaging of the hormone in the transfer process, or by the hormone being aggregated by just passing through the air while being transferred? I suppose this is greatly reduced in Pharmaceutical manufacturing because of the sealed rooms, filtered air, quality control process etc.?
janoshik
AnaSCI Approved Tester
It ought to be done under inert conditions, ie. nitrogen atmosphere - which generally can be problematic to achieve, but with high tech facilities it's not that much of an issue as once it's set up properly it's no bother.
Imo in 'low-end' manufacturers the lack of or insufficient nitrogen atmosphere might be an issue - but that's just guessing now.
Lyophilisation can be a harsh procedure by itself, so even if everything is set up properly individual adjustments must be done, instruments / factory line properly maintained etc.
But the know-how is there, now even with generic factories based in China which are capable of producing HGH on par with US Pharma.
OK, so. It is my opinion that Pharma factories based in China are responsible for producing the high quality "Generic" HGH we have been testing. I'm thinking that there are a ton of kits that find it's way out the back doors and end up here as the generics that are testing as well (or better) than Pharma. I know you work with, at least, one factory in China. Would you agree with my opinion, or am I way off base.