Is it really "just that easy" ?

[Concreteguy]

I remember reading that your body can only assimilate approx 40 grams of protein at one meal. I think it was one of Arnolds books?
Does anyone have some real numbers we can hang are hats on when it come to this.
How many grams of protein can the average man handle in one meal?
I'm thinking maybe 2 yogurts a day between meals to help with digestion. Thoughts on this?


CG

 

[rangerjockey]

Never read that article before....I am sitting at work now dumbfounded, 500 grams holy crap. It makes total sense just look at the power lifters who eat EVERYTHING. They have to be eating close to 500 grams of protein. I am thinking of the Strongman competetions that big Sweed...Magnus

 

[Magnus82]

I remember reading that your body can only assimilate approx 40 grams of protein at one meal. I think it was one of Arnolds books?
Does anyone have some real numbers we can hang are hats on when it come to this.
How many grams of protein can the average man handle in one meal?
I'm thinking maybe 2 yogurts a day between meals to help with digestion. Thoughts on this?


CG

In my own experience, my body needs 200g+ protein to grow. There were times I was growing taking in 2 meals per day. If the 40g were true, there would be no possible way to grow, but I did and with marginal difference from when I was eating 6 meals. Keep in mind some proteins take over 6 hours to digest. So to answer your question, I'm a firm believer in if you create the environment, your body will use all of it.
I also think yogurt is a great aid in digestion. I use plain Faye all all the time and add what I like.

 

[Sully]

I remember reading that your body can only assimilate approx 40 grams of protein at one meal. I think it was one of Arnolds books?
Does anyone have some real numbers we can hang are hats on when it come to this.
How many grams of protein can the average man handle in one meal?
I'm thinking maybe 2 yogurts a day between meals to help with digestion. Thoughts on this?


CG

The body can and will process and make use of every gram of protein you take in. The idea of only taking in Xgrams of protein in a meal is slightly true. Following a workout, we have an anabolic window where the body is primed for recovery and growth. In that time window, approximately 20-40 grams of protein can be used by the body specifically for protein synthesis. It actually takes more protein to get the same anabolic response as we get older. So, guys in their late thirties and older should try to hit the 40 gram mark.

Any protein consumed in excess of the 20-40 grams used for protein synthesis is not discarded of passed through as waste as some people will tell you. The body still has to digest it, and it will oxidize it/burn it for fuel just like it would with any other macronutrients taken in at any time of the day.

So, the short answer is to take in at least 20-40 grams post workout, but there's no reason to limit yourself to only 20-40 grams. The body will still use the extra protein, but just for energy and not for protein synthesis.

 

[Concreteguy]

How about peptopro? The characteristics of this is that it goes directly through the stomach walls and gets to your system quickly. Do you think this would be a better way to slam protein?


CG

 

[Cerberus777]

How about peptopro? The characteristics of this is that it goes directly through the stomach walls and gets to your system quickly. Do you think this would be a better way to slam protein?


CG

I'll answer 2 questions here...and I've yet to figure out my multi quotes.

You can used as much protein as you can digest. You'll used it as fuel if you don't have the need or hormone environment to grow. But the calories can't be the majority from protein, or you'll start to prefer this as a fuel source. You may need extra enzymes to break up the protein, we produce less as we age.

Pepto pro and EAA are great ways to up protein in 2 ways. One they require no digestion. Two they will signal your body to start protien synthesis if taken pre meal.

 

[Magnus82]

How about peptopro? The characteristics of this is that it goes directly through the stomach walls and gets to your system quickly. Do you think this would be a better way to slam protein?


CG

CG, have you ever looked into Emeric's DWGE. I think this would be the perfect thing your looking for.

 

[Sully]

How about peptopro? The characteristics of this is that it goes directly through the stomach walls and gets to your system quickly. Do you think this would be a better way to slam protein?


CG

I'm not that familiar with peptopro, so I can't speak about that directly. But, what the research shows is that a protein blend is superior to a single type of protein. Part of that is due to the varying amino acid profiles of the different proteins, but mostly it is due to the different digestion rates. The fast digesting proteins like the hydrolyzed whey and whey isolate are digested first, then slower proteins like egg and soy are next, followed by slow digesting proteins like micellar casein and milk protein isolate. The "time-release" nature of the protein blend actually prolongs the anabolic window in the body and allows protein synthesis to happen over a longer period of time, thus allowing the body to repair and build muscle for a longer period of time. When I comes to protein, faster isn't always better. Which might be partly responsible for the idea that whole food meals are superior to shakes, because they digest slower and allow a longer period of amino acid release in the body.

Of course, none of this is taking into account blood sugar or gastric emptying times, which can have their own differing effects on protein synthesis and nutrient shuttling. That's almost a whole other conversation.

 

[Concreteguy]

CG, have you ever looked into Emeric's DWGE. I think this would be the perfect thing your looking for.

Seriously, what is DWGE? I really haven't followed Emeric on any level.

CG

 

[sodzl]

Digested wheat germ extract. I think.

 

[Magnus82]

Seriously, what is DWGE? I really haven't followed Emeric on any level.

CG

Here is a post by Emeric:

There are many prebiotics on the market the most popular is inulin, I know some people are confused ,the difference between DWGE and inulin : Inulins are a group of naturally occurring polysaccharides produced by many types of plants, and is most often extracted from chicory, the inulins belong to a class of dietary fibers known as fructans and dozn`t contains glucozoid 2-metoxi-p-benzokinon (2-MBQ) and in 2,6-dimetoxi-p-benzokinon (2,6-DMBQ).

The DWGE has no fructans, no gluten and contains glucozoid 2-metoxi-p-benzokinon (2-MBQ) and in 2,6-dimetoxi-p-benzokinon (2,6-DMBQ) and naturally occuring oligopetisaccharides. There is also other type of prebiotic containing fructosaccharides (FOS).

All inulin-type prebiotics, including FOS, are generally thought to stimulate the growth of Bifidobacteria species. Bifidobacteria are considered friendly bacteria. This effect has not been uniformly found in all studies, both for Bifidobacteria and for other gut organisms.[8][unreliable source?] FOS are also fermented by numerous bacterial species in the intestine, including Klebsiella, E. coli[9] and many Clostridium species, which are considered less-friendly bacteria in the gut. These species are responsible mainly for the gas formation (hydrogen and carbon dioxide), which results after ingestion of FOS.

They can cause intestinal gas (flatulence), intestinal noises, bloating, stomach cramps, and diarrhea. These effects are usually mild if the dose is less than 10 grams per day.

I hope this will help to better understand why DWGE is so superior the the other prebiotics.

Wheat Germ Extract - a gluten free prebiotc containing mixture of biologically active materials including benzoquinones. The 2,6-dimethoxy-p-benzoquinone (2,6DMBQ), derived from different plant species, is of special interest. The wheat (Triticum vulgaris) is one of the largest known natural sources of these compounds: oligosaccharides and oligopeptides which helps to stimulate the growth and/or activity of bacteria in the digestive system with a beneficial effect in the digestive process. After the harmful proteins of gluten are eliminated and the fructans are disengaged, the wheat germ extract concentration allows the immunomodulatory effects of the substituted benzo-quinones to be obtained without the consumption of impractically large amounts of wheat germ.

 

[tri-terror]

Has anyone actually used dwge?

 

[Magnus82]

Has anyone actually used dwge?

I do. I've been suffering from ulcerative colitis since I was 16. Although I had no medication for it my diet was limited. IBS, severe gas and bloating, stomach aches, heartburn, and loose stools were all things I just learned to live with. I tried different otc medications and probiotics with no success. Even made my own yogurt with specialized bacteria strains. Aside from diet, nothing helped. When Emeric came out with DWGE I was hopeful as I believe he is one of the greatest minds in modern bbing today. Less than 3 weeks on and I felt like I was leading global a normal life, returning foods I once enjoyed. Just the ability to eat more food was huge. It been a game changer for me. My sister in law suffers from CIC (Chronic Ideopathic Constipation) and she was able to come off Linzess with the use of DWGE.

 

[chicken_hawk]

I think it is more being consistent with everything but diet being the most important element. The reason I don't look a certain way is purely due to diet... mine is pretty crap. If I had ate 500g protein on a consistent basis over the last few years (with good carbs and fats) I would look so much better.

I don't think you need 500g protein... far from it... but sure it will work.

Carbs are protein sparing and that is key. There are some massive ripped guys consuming 250g protein (or less) ed. More is not necessarily better. It's your complete diet that counts. I have read some of your log and your diet is a bit like mine... all over the place. Honestly if someone offered me $10,000 to eat say 50/40/20 for 7 meals a day all healthy and clean for 1 week I am not sure I would be able to do it That's my goal though to eat consistently and about 350g protein per day (50g in approx. 7 meals).

I land here with Elvia. CHO spare protein and without CHO the PRO you ingest will just be converted to energy anyway.

And that may be the reason 500g of PRO works so well for them. 1. Energy is a priority of anabolism 2. 500g of PRO will provide plenty extra so they never become energy deficient. 3. The result is a theoretical state of anabolism.

My thinking is that 300g of PRO with more CHO would be a better answer. I also think that using extra BCAA's or EAA's between meals may be an even better answer. BCAA's and more specifically Luecine of around 4+ g triggers PRO synthesis on an empty stomach. On the other hand 10g or EAA's provides the equivalent anabolism of 40g of whey w/out the bloat.If it were me, I would start there, by simply adding 5g of BCAA's between meals.

Hawk

 

[Concreteguy]

I land here with Elvia. CHO spare protein and without CHO the PRO you ingest will just be converted to energy anyway.

And that may be the reason 500g of PRO works so well for them. 1. Energy is a priority of anabolism 2. 500g of PRO will provide plenty extra so they never become energy deficient. 3. The result is a theoretical state of anabolism.

My thinking is that 300g of PRO with more CHO would be a better answer. I also think that using extra BCAA's or EAA's between meals may be an even better answer. BCAA's and more specifically Luecine of around 4+ g triggers PRO synthesis on an empty stomach. On the other hand 10g or EAA's provides the equivalent anabolism of 40g of whey w/out the bloat.If it were me, I would start there, by simply adding 5g of BCAA's between meals.
Hawk

CH, you make perfect sense in what your saying. But let me ask you this. BIGA is an IFBB Pro and he's saying 500grams of protein. He isn't giving a choice of carbs to spare protein. Why do you think this is. Is the article older than current wisdom on nutrient?
I'm thinking about just hammering the 500gms protein and doing a lot of digestive enzymes to keep it being used. But I do get what your saying.

CG

 

[chicken_hawk]

CH, you make perfect sense in what your saying. But let me ask you this. BIGA is an IFBB Pro and he's saying 500grams of protein. He isn't giving a choice of carbs to spare protein. Why do you think this is. Is the article older than current wisdom on nutrient?
I'm thinking about just hammering the 500gms protein and doing a lot of digestive enzymes to keep it being used. But I do get what your saying.

CG

Well, here is how I see it.
1. You like me have been around competitive bbers for some time. I say that to remind you that it is a mix of science, mysticism and tradition. I have seen it 1000 times, if big time bber X says, squeeze your balls while doing 1 arm curls then all his followers will squeeze their balls too. Pro bbers become cult like idols and their word is law. We have a former pro from the 90's here and if he told his guys to eat baby food they would. Anyone else remember that?

2. Almost everything works. There are so many programs, both training and nutrition, DC, HIT, CHO backloading, CHO cycling, High test-low tren or high tren-low test. They all work. But, what works best? That's what I want to know and attempt to find out. I believe 500g will make an improvment is ones progress, but is it the best and fastest? I doubt it.

3. I prefer to take small steps when I try something new (and I do like trying new things). I would add 50-75g to what I was currently doing for a month and then judge from there. I mean I know 4g of AAS works better than 2g, but I am just not going there all at once.

4. 500g is not the secret. Actually the secret is no secret, it's just expensive. GH is the reason Pros are so big. not the 5iu I fool around with, no 15+iu is where it's at. Take 15-20iu PRW ED to get IGF levels up and that is where the mass is at.

I am not an authority on anything so please just take my thoughts as just that, my thoughts.

Hawk

 

[nothuman]

How about peptopro? The characteristics of this is that it goes directly through the stomach walls and gets to your system quickly. Do you think this would be a better way to slam protein?


CG

That would be a REALLY expensive way to consume large amounts of protein

 

[squatster]

Great read again guys. I have never been a huge guy - at 5'-8" and the most I have ever weighed was 232 I have never Been over 10% body fat either
The best gains I ever did was-70+ grams of protein ever 2 to 2 1/2 hours - was going up pounds pr week and fat was decreasing and then I quit every thing after my peptide log- I do 2 or 3 donuts per day now and that's it for my protein-(Sorry - have to justify the donut eating some how so I say there is protein in them) - haven't touched a weight since.
You guys with these great articles are getting my flat little ass going again
This place is alive again
Thanks guys
Keep them coming

 

[rangerjockey]

Could you imagine the cost of 15 iu's daily of GH,....? to rich for m blood...literally

 

[Sandpig]

Could you imagine the cost of 15 iu's daily of GH,....? to rich for m blood...literally

I can't even afford 3 IU's