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Is it really "just that easy" ?

Concreteguy

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Mar 12, 2013
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I just read BIGA's Principles of growing. I'm reading along taking it all in and it was nothing I haven't heard a hundred, million times before and BAM. There is was, a moment that almost made the hair on my arms go up.
But before I go into what I read, let me tell you who I am. I'm a guy like any other that walked in a gym and got hooked, got into gear about five years later and started competing about five years after that. Being the typical *white guy with freckles* Lee Haney wasn't feeling any pressure with me out there training. I was eating, training, and doing gear correctly. Maybe on the heavy side, but everything was on point and I was growing. It wasn't until I started doing shows that I started finding the big guys. I was a big guy in my gym but not among BIG GUYS. I excepted this fact and just won shows on balance and conditioning. I'm in the process of getting ready now.
So lets go back to a couple hours ago. I'm reading along in this article and the first thing that struck me was BIGA said to try to take in 500grams of protein a day. That's a lot and I have never done this. I have read the kidneys have a problem with this much. So I never did it. Then this is what blew me away.
He wrote at the end. Make sure and eat 500grams of protein. All steroids do is make you convert protein to muscle. SO THE MORE YOU EAT THE BIGGER YOU WILL GET.
Guy do I have to tell you what's going on in my mind? Is it really just this fucking easy? Literally all these years of training and not being the "big guy" is because of ((((M E)))) not eating enough fucking protein? As I came to my senses, I pulled the revolver out of my mouth and headed to the refrigerator for some cottage cheese. He made it sound so easy. Have a protein shake with every meal. That's it. I'm not kidding when I say this. This is the only thing I have never tried in my years training and that's going to change. Effective today!
What are your feelings on this guys?

CG
 

sodzl

Registered User
May 10, 2013
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Sometimes i think there's too much emphasis on all the science. What works in the lab and in theory doesn't always pan out in real life. I have to agree with him to a point. My best cycle was on a low dose (todays standards) . I kept a couple shaker bottles in my mini fridge and would take a couple sips every twenty minutes or so. How many times have we seen a guy claim to be a "hard gainer" and his diet consist of pop tarts, creatine, pizza and an occasional chicken breast.
 

Concreteguy

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Mar 12, 2013
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YA man. Now your getting it. Could it be as easy as he says. "The more protein you eat the bigger you will get"? Tell ya what on paper it sure makes sense. Damn, I just never looked at it as what does steroids do? So enable them to do there job. IE: Feed them protein. Crist sacks, it's to easy. Talk about a forehead slapper. And I have read that article a dozen times over the years..........

CG
 

lycan Venom

AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
Nov 22, 2013
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watch rich piana's YouTube videos. it's all he preaches. eat more! train more! eat 8-12 times a day, force it! train as hard and long as you can, and then more!

it's just constant anabolic vs never allowing a catabolic state. I'm no biochemist scientist but it makes since, eat and grow. each person's body will react differently, muscle, fat or organ issues. experiment and let us know.
 

Magnus82

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Lol CG, the epiphany! As simple as it is, many don't do it. Some think they do, but don't. I kind of did the same thing but with carbs. I've helped several people that despite my advise, kept upping the dose and upping the dose. Then add slin, peps, gh, HIT, DC, High volume, high frequency, two a days...... ugh! I talked 2 of them into running a modest 500mg/wk test 500mg/wk deca/npp but make damn sure to get 500g protein with no less than 75% of them coming from real food. Let's just say they were both blown away. Great thread GC. The more you know, the more you grow!
 

Concreteguy

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Mar 12, 2013
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Maybe we could move this towards the most efficient way to get huge protein values down the trap? Are there any aids we can take to help our kidneys slamming this much protein? Or do you think it's OK?
I'm not kidding, Johnnies got a new par of shoes baby. I'm going to walk this walk...........

CG
 

Magnus82

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I think a lot of the kidney damage can be contributed to high tren and/or pain killers. Honestly I don't run very high doses on a bulk and never tren so my concern with excessive protein is minimal. Cutting I will use tren but calories are lower and protein is closer to 1g to 1.5g/bw. I know blood work doesn't alway show the extent of all kidney damage, but it always comes back within range after a bulk.
 

Elvia1023

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Oct 28, 2007
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I think it is more being consistent with everything but diet being the most important element. The reason I don't look a certain way is purely due to diet... mine is pretty crap. If I had ate 500g protein on a consistent basis over the last few years (with good carbs and fats) I would look so much better.

I don't think you need 500g protein... far from it... but sure it will work.

Carbs are protein sparing and that is key. There are some massive ripped guys consuming 250g protein (or less) ed. More is not necessarily better. It's your complete diet that counts. I have read some of your log and your diet is a bit like mine... all over the place. Honestly if someone offered me $10,000 to eat say 50/40/20 for 7 meals a day all healthy and clean for 1 week I am not sure I would be able to do it :eek: That's my goal though to eat consistently and about 350g protein per day (50g in approx. 7 meals).
 

Magnus82

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I should also mention a large part of my protein intake are egg whites.. They are low in phosphorous which makes them easier on the kidneys. I also consume a lot of garlic, onions, olive oil, cranberries, beets, and asparagus which all aid in proper kidney function. I have also heard ginger root and turmeric tea make a great kidney detox. I would also think inj curcumin would be a great addition.
 

srd1

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Feb 19, 2013
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Cool thread....Diet has always been my achiles heal gets me every time I start out great out of the gate but it never fails 3 or 4 weeks in my appetite tanks. Any fail proof methods to be able to choke down all that food??
 

Concreteguy

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Mar 12, 2013
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Cool thread....Diet has always been my achiles heal gets me every time I start out great out of the gate but it never fails 3 or 4 weeks in my appetite tanks. Any fail proof methods to be able to choke down all that food??

This is a great question. It hits firmly in the hearts of all of us.
How do we stay hungry for ( What ) foods?

CG
 

lycan Venom

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Nov 22, 2013
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maybe I'll invent some kind of proprietary blend of ingredients that stimulate appetite... they make the shit for reptiles, why not humans.. if eq and tren make you hungry, what pharmaceutical compound can make you constantly hungry!? last cycle I I was on both eq and tren combined with clen.. I thought I was going to not eat at all and I had the complete opposite.. I couldn't stop eating.
 

AnaSCI

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Sep 17, 2003
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For those that have not read Big A's article from 2002, here it is in it's entirety:

http://www.anasci.org/vB/weight-lifting-training-articles/8215-growth-principles-beginners.html

This is a general guide for beginning and intermediate bodybuilders that don't know the principles behind muscle growth yet or are not happy with the results that they are currently getting.

We will go through training, diet and gear. I will
tell you the principles behind everything that I
recommend for you to do, so you can understand why
certain things happen, so in the future you can fix
problems yourself.
Bodybuilding is a very simple and logical endeavour.
Everything that you do has to be logical. Only logical
actions will give you results. Every time that you
come across a new principle, always ask yourself it it
makes logical sense. If it does not, dump it!

TRAINING

Why does a muscle grow? Because it has to adapt. When
does it have to adapt? When you expose it to something
that it has not done before. When is something that it
has not done before? When the muscle is taxed 100%.
That's 100% effort. What's 100% effort? When you train
to 100% PHYSICAL, not mental failure. So, to make the
muscle grow, you have to train with 100% effort
otherwise, the muscle will not adapt/grow.
Now, using the above logic, for a set to be beneficial
to your growth, it needs to be 100% effort. So, a 100%
effort set of an exercise, will make you grow. Then,
what is the point to do a second set of that exercise?
You cannot go more than 100%. The muscle already has
been taxed by 100% from the first set, so why should
you do a second one? You will just eat into your
recovery ability.
So, you should only do one set to failure per
exercise. Later on, I will describe the training
program and how exercises and warm-ups are involved.

A muscle will not grow until it's recovered. The
muscle will not begin to recover until the nervous
system is recovered. It takes roughly 24hours for the
nervous system to recover from a workout. Only then
will the muscle begin to recover and grow. So, you
should never train 2 days in a row. Even if you train
different bodyparts, you still use the same nervous
system. You train 2 days in a row, your nervous system
recovers, but by the time the muscles begin to, you
train again, so the body has to concentrate again on
recovering the nervous system.
A training frequency of 3 days per week (Mon, Wed,
Fri) is more than enough. Numerous pros, including
myself, train like this offseason for maximum growth.
Even if you use streroids, you still have to train
like this. Steroids increase your recovery ability,
but they also make you stronger at a quicker rate. The
extra strength will give you the ability to train
harder/tear more muscle tissue, so you will need the
extra recovery that the steroids will give you.

The following is a great training program that I
recomend:

Mon - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
* Incline press - warm-up sets, 1 work set
* Flat flyes - 1 work set
* Millitary press - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
* Lateral flyes - 1 work set
* Rear delt machine - 1 work set
* Tricep pushdowns - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
* Lying tricep extensions - 1 work-set

Wed - Quads, Hams, Calves
* Squats - warm-ups, 1 work set
* Leg press - work set
* Leg extension - work set
* Leg curl - warm-up, work set
* Stiff leg deadlift - work set
* Standing calf raise - work set

Fri - Abs, Back, Bis
* Rope crunches - warm up, work set
* Lat pull down - warm-ups, work set
* Deadlift - warm-up, work set
* Bent-over rows - work set
* Shrugs - work set
* Standing BB curls - warm up, work set
* Concentration curl - work set

You do a lot of warm-ups for your first exercise of
the day. You do one warm-up for the first exercise of
each bodypart, only to optimise the firing of te
neuropathways.
Let's use chest as an example - if for example your
max (work set) in the incline press is 3 plates, then
you do 2 warm-ups with the bar, 2 warm-ups with one
plate, 1 warm-up with 2 plates and then your work set
with 3 plates. The work set is a set where you fail at
about 6 reps. Every workout, you have to do more reps
or increase the weight in that work set (remember, the
muscle has to do something that it has not done
before). So if one work out you fail with 6 reps, the
following nothing less than 7. When you reach 8 reps,
the following workout you should do (increase) a
weight where you can do minimum 4 reps. Then increase
your reps again every workout until you reach 8 again,
and so on. Each rep has a tempo of 2-1-1. That is 2
seconds in the negative, one second in the contraction
and 1 second in the positive.
Then, after you fail in the incline press, you move
straight to flat flyes. You do not need a warmp now
because your chest is more than warm after you failed
on presses.
And that's it for chest. The basic routine stays the
same. If you want variety, small changes as using DB's
instead of BB or doing flat presse and incline flyes
for example, is mor ethan enough variety to keep the
muscle 'confused'.

DIET

VERY simple. Very important that you try to get as
close to 500g of protein per day. Easiest way to do
that is to have a whey protein shake in water with
every meal. Fats and carbs don't matter. Calories
don't count, macro nutrients (protein, fat, carb) do.
If you get to add fat on, just cut out the fats and
keep your carbs bellow 300g/day. That's all it is!
Very simple, but hard to stick to, so not many people
get results. On gear, the more protein you eat, the
more you grow. Is as simple as that. Gear maximises
protein synthesis.

GEAR

You need a testosterone base. 750mg/week is plenty.
You need an anabolic - deca or Eq at 400mg/week is
plenty. You need for optimum growth, a good oral like
d-bol at 30mg/d or A-50 50mg/d.
You use the test and the anabolic non stop. The oral
is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. Every 6th week (the half
way point between the off oral period - so 2 weeks
after you finish the oral) you have a blood test. If
the blood test is OK, then you can begin your next 4
weeks on oral. There is no reason for you to come off.
The only 2 reasons are health or your receptors are
saturated. If the regular blood test is OK, your
health is OK. If you are still making progress, your
receptors are OK. Coming off, will just sabotage your
gains. That's why I do not believe in set time frames
for cycles. Listen to your body. When you use the
oral, you need to use all the liver aids available - Synthergine,
milk thistle, L-methionine, liv-52, etc. Of course you
cannot drink or do rec drugs during that time. Using
these precautions, your blood tests will be OK.
You also need to use an anti estrogen like Nolvadex at
10mg/d throughout the whole time. Also, you have a
choice between HCG every 4 weeks at 5000IU or Clomid
at 50mg EOD. These will make sure that your balls will
stay at a decent size and they will not forget how to
function.
The blood tests that you need are: full blood count,
liver and kidney function tests, FSH, LH, TSH,
cholesterol.
If the Total protein test in the liver tests is high,
that is because of your diet. You need to keep an eye
on the Billirubin and Urea test results. Your FSH and
LH will be suppressed - that's normal because of the
gear. If the TSH is low, add 20mcg/d T3. If the kidney
function is off, then drink more. protein stresses the
kidneys, so you need more fluids.
When you eventually come off the gear, you make sure
that you are off the orals. Then cut out the anabolic
over 2 weeks. Then the testosterone over 3 weeks. One
week after that, you need to add primo tabs or anavar
(oxandrin) for 3 weeks. That will ensure that you will
keep your gains.
Ideally do a gainkeeper's formula that is outlined in another article.

These are the basic principles behind muscle growth. You do the above you will GROW, no matter what.
 

Magnus82

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Oct 29, 2012
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[bd1;264826]Cool thread....Diet has always been my achiles heal gets me every time I start out great out of the gate but it never fails 3 or 4 weeks in my appetite tanks. Any fail proof methods to be able to choke down all that food??[/QUOTE]

I've always said eating is by far the hardest part. When you bulk your stuffing your face to the point of almost puking. When cutting you want to eat the paint off the walls. I've found drinking my calories help a ton. Breakfast usually a shake consisting of 16oz egg whites, 1 whole egg, 1 banana, and 2 scoops protein powder along with 2 pieces 12 grain toast topped with avocado. About 110g protein in that meal. The shake because its blended speeds digestion and I'm quite hungry by 11am. I will also use this shake pre and post workout. That's 330g already. Add 3 more meals and it gets you there pretty easily. Also for more protein for those of you that eat rice, make ham fried rice. Make 2 cups rice and add 6 scrambled eggs, diced ham, chicken, beef, or shrimp. Before bed eat cottage cheese or make yogurt with plain Greek yogurt, protein powder, coconut oil, and sugar free instant jello.
 

Magnus82

Banned
Oct 29, 2012
4,827
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Out in the boondocks
maybe I'll invent some kind of proprietary blend of ingredients that stimulate appetite... they make the shit for reptiles, why not humans.. if eq and tren make you hungry, what pharmaceutical compound can make you constantly hungry!? last cycle I I was on both eq and tren combined with clen.. I thought I was going to not eat at all and I had the complete opposite.. I couldn't stop eating.

Ghrp6
 

AnaSCI

ADMINISTRATOR
Sep 17, 2003
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Cool thread....Diet has always been my achiles heal gets me every time I start out great out of the gate but it never fails 3 or 4 weeks in my appetite tanks. Any fail proof methods to be able to choke down all that food??

This is a great question. It hits firmly in the hearts of all of us.
How do we stay hungry for ( What ) foods?

CG

maybe I'll invent some kind of proprietary blend of ingredients that stimulate appetite... they make the shit for reptiles, why not humans..

Synthelamin has always helped boost my appetite to the point of not wanting to stop eating!
 

Sully

AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
Dec 3, 2012
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High protein intake is hard on the kidneys? Wrong. That idea is based on one study, done several decades ago, and is a terribly flawed analysis for one major reason. The study was done on people ALREADY EXPERIENCING KIDNEY FAILURE! The conclusions drawn from that study cannot and should not be applied to healthy people with no symptoms of kidney distress/failure. All studies done since then, on healthy trained people, show no indications that even a massive intake of protein has any negative consequences on kidney health or overall health and well being. Quite the opposite actually. Several studies done in the last few years show that increased protein consumption leads to higher metabolic rates, lower body fat percentage, and higher percentage of muscle mass. Plus, studies on eggs, whole eggs specifically, show that people that eat at least 3 whole eggs a day burn fat more easily, build muscle more easily, have lower percentages of body fat and higher amounts of lean muscle mass.

One last point, the body is almost incapable of metabolizing protein for storage as adipose tissue(fat). The pathways may exist, but they are incredibly inefficient, at best. A recent study conducted on healthy/fit trained individuals fed them super high amounts of protein, far in excess of their maintenance caloric needs, and there was shown to be no increase in their bodies fat mass from the extra protein intake.
 
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tri-terror

Registered User
Oct 31, 2012
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Man CG, I'm so fucking glad you posted this... sometimes you just need a reality check right?

I have never gotten 500g protein down the hatch. Ever.

But. The best I have ever looked offseason was running 750mg sust a week with 400mg tren hex. I was training Dorians blood and guts routine and consistent in eating at least 350g protein per day. I didn't track any other macros but I tried to keep my fat reasonable and ate a lot of carbs around my workout.
 

Concreteguy

Super Moderator
Mar 12, 2013
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Man CG, I'm so fucking glad you posted this... sometimes you just need a reality check right?

I have never gotten 500g protein down the hatch. Ever.

But. The best I have ever looked offseason was running 750mg sust a week with 400mg tren hex. I was training Dorians blood and guts routine and consistent in eating at least 350g protein per day. I didn't track any other macros but I tried to keep my fat reasonable and ate a lot of carbs around my workout.

It all makes so much sense in retrospect. Go figure. I've been looking back over all my diets and pics, it points to the same fucking thing. My biggest sizes came with the biggest protein levels. And that was never over 300grams. This diet came from one of PMs most popular trainers.
For some reason reading this just set a light off in my head. I'm going to go with it and ramp the #s up to 500 an ride it out. Were getting great food and sup ideas to eat and stay hungry.
Guys, please keep it coming!

CG
 

pesty4077

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Jun 20, 2008
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I can't eat that much protein. I eat about 250 now, but hey I don't need to be real big. I will go up to 300 Grams soon though. I do want to comment though. When I eat 400 Grams for a show, I look at my best and BF drops. I am not eating as much fats or carbs either.