That's not what scientists mean by evolution. Every living thing evolved from a common ancestor. Evolution starts after the first living organism. Abiogenesis is the science of how a living thing can come from a non living thing.
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For all the Bill Nye and science lovers out there
- Thread starter Slate23
- Start date
That's not what scientists mean by evolution. Every living thing evolved from a common ancestor. Evolution starts after the first living organism. Abiogenesis is the science of how a living thing can come from a non living thing.
dorian777
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- Apr 28, 2013
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Hey, I liked Star Trek III The Search For Spock too, but I didn't know it was based on a true story:action-smiley-030:
Yes bio Satan as many false Messiah's but there can be only one Highlander
Respectfully, the point is that the mythological story above pre-dates the Jesus deity by thousands of years with Horus being the earliest. This story has been passed down, changing every century or so, and from culture to culture. There are many more deities than the ones listed above that have many of the same similarities. Here's some in depth information on Horus...Take the time to read through it! Was Horus Born on December 25th of a Virgin? | Sun God of Egypt
History also tells us that the 10 commandments were taken from the Egyptian Book of The Dead. Again, a culture and society that long pre-dates that of the Jesus character and Roman culture.
Then there's the description of Emperor Titus Flavius as written by Josephus. The sequence of events and locations of Jesus' ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of Emperor Titus Flavius. You can read more about Josephus here...Josephus on Jesus | Forgery and Fraud? | Flavius Testimonium
What about the comparisons of the Old Testament and the Epic of Gilgamesh? Again, The Epic of Gilgamesh is much older than the story of the Old Testament.
The Dead Sea Scrolls. They make no mention of Jesus.
The Catholic Encyclopedia refers to a widely circulated remark by Pope Leo X (1513-1521) :
“How much we and our family have profited by the legend of Christ, is sufficiently evident to all ages.”
Pope Paul III expressed similar sentiments, saying “there were no valid documents to demonstrate the existence of Christ.”
In general, when you look at history, the idea of many gods far out dates the the idea of monotheism. Early societies thought shooting stars were a god, lightning was a god, fire was a god, and on and on. The idea of a single god came thousands of years later when it was realized the power, control, and influence religion and the idea of an angry god had over the masses. The marriage of religion and politics has continued to deceive and rule over the masses using fear as their vehicle of control. It's not a warm and fuzzy truth but once realized, it helps one take full control of their life and see things for what they really are.
dorian777
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- Apr 28, 2013
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So where does morality come from? Are we born with the knowledge of good and evil? What is evil? When Christian missionaries came across savages eating each other, should they have said, "Cool!" or taught them as they did?
Morality developed in human beings long before religion had taken hold of societies. If you're referring to Divine Command Theory, there are many immoral acts in the bible but Divine Command Theory makes them okay. Here's a good read. Religion Morality Identical
AM, I'm just posting some facts and being respectful about it. There's no anger behind any of my posts. Sadly, your above post shows that you would rather make a snide comment than have a respectful discussion of the facts. Like I said, I was only interested in the truth when I first started researching both sides. I believed in God and wondered why others did not. It was interesting and eye opening journey. I'm not trying to change your mind. That's for you decide through your own research of both sides. Again, I was just respectfully taking part in an interesting discussion.
dorian777
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- Apr 28, 2013
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So you're saying that there really is no such thing as sin, because it's open to individual interpretation. Therefore, what's wrong to one is ok to another. Sounds like chaos to me. The article claims there are hundreds of millions of people with no religion that live moral lives. They have never lied? Never stolen? Never been envious? There has been only one individual that has ever lived that led a perfect life. Jesus Christ.
dorian777
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- Apr 28, 2013
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Well, not from Cromm like Conan, but the real deal...Jesus! You know, it's an individual choice. The Gift is free to receive by everyone. Believe me, I'm by no means "moral" all the time, but I try to be. Yes, this thread has been one of the most entertaining of all time. We should receive some sort of nomination for Thread of the Year or something!
I don't use the word sin, as it,s an idea born out of religion which to me is base on mythology. Take some time to look at the topic of religion being or not being necessary for moral behavior. It's an interesting topic. Don't be afraid to look at both sides!
Thousands of years before the bible was written and the ten commandments were ever in play, human beings had a sense of right and wrong that like anything else, evolved over time. Open to re-examination by all. Many people who don't believe try to live moral lives. Many Christians who are very outspoken and judgmental are trying to hide an immoral life.
Morality is subjective. Is killing wrong? The ten commandments says thou shalt not kill. That is an absolute statement. There are no footnotes that list exceptions. If an armed intruder breaks into another persons house to rape and murder, and a member of the household shoots and kills that person, is that ok? Some will say yes, others will say no. Some will quote the bible in areas that say to take up a sword, others will quote the ten commandments. Who's right?? Also, do you think the intruder who broke into the house to do harm doesn't know the difference between right and wrong? It's not about knowing the difference between right and wrong or moral and immoral, it's about putting it into practice. That's where one makes their own decision.
To answer your question about millions who do not believe but live moral lives. When you talk about lying, is there no room for a harmless lie that might spare ones feelings? To me there is a difference between a lie that is used for selfish, deceptive purposes and one that spares ones emotions. It could be a friend who's made terrible mistakes in their life and who may be considered a loser in societies eyes. They come to you depressed and say, "I'm just a loser." In return, you reply, "no you're not!" Are you immoral or acting in a sinful manner for trying to comfort someone?
People that try to live life as black or white are living a very shot sighted life!...In my humble opinion.
As for Jesus living a perfect life, I respectfully disagree. I think Jesus is just a mythological character of the Roman era that has the exact same story that many other deities shared for thousands of years prior. Just look at the comparisons of deities that I listed earlier, and remember that they all pre-date the Jesus deity. Those are the deities that shared the exact same story...There are many others that share many similarities.
Again, I just wanted to know the truth when I began my research. I wasn't biased to one side or another. I'm not afraid or conditioned with fear, to look at both sides weigh out the facts.
Remember, the ten commandments originated from the Egyptian Book of The Dead thousands of years earlier.
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS AND THE BOOK OF THE DEAD
There seems to be a similarity between the moral codes of the ancient Egyptians and the early Israelites. The Ten Commandments given by God to Moses on the top of Mount Sinai are clearly set in an Egyptian tradition and would seem to have common roots with the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Except for the first two commandments, we find the same moral rules in the Hebrew Bible that are also found in the Egyptian hieroglyphic writings. Egyptian religion was a polytheistic belief, and hundreds of gods and goddesses were worshiped in the Nile valley. These deities were believed to manifest themselves in certain images and the artists of that time captured these images in pictures and statues. This was completely forbidden by the Monotheistic God of Moses in the first two of his commandments given in Chapter 20 of the Book of Exodus: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
Also, unlike the Israelites, Egyptians believed in a second life after death. They believed that every person has, other than his physical body, a dual spiritual nature, which they called the KA and the BA. They also regarded the name and shadow of a person as living entities, part of the spiritual existence, not just linguistic and natural phenomena. Thus Egyptians regarded death as simply a temporary interruption rather than a complete cessation of life, and believed that after their death, they faced a trial in the underworld before the god Osiris and his forty-two judges in the Hall of Judgment. In the Egyptian culture, eternal life had to be ensured by various means, including the preservation of the physical body through mummification, the provision of funerary equipment, and the presence of magical spells in the tomb to protect the dead person in his journey in the underworld.
Their composition of the texts relating to death and afterlife went back to the Pyramid Texts, the first examples of which were inscribed in the 5th dynasty pyramid of Unas (2375 - 2345 BC) at Saqqara. By the time of the 18th dynasty, about 1500 BC, these spells were copied on rolls of papyrus and placed within the coffins. These rolls have come to be known now as copies of the Book of the Dead. This is, nevertheless, a modern term, as the Egyptians themselves called it "Going Forth by Day."
The Ten Commandments represent God's orders to humans given in the imperative form; the Egyptian texts use this form:
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shat not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Spell 125 of the Book of the Dead, contrary to the Book of Exodus, contains a moral code represented in a form of Negative Confession that the dead person has to recite when he descends to the hall of the Two Truths. He shall say:
Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .
I have not reviled the God.
I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.
I have not done what the God abominates . . .
I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
I have not caused anyone's suffering . . . I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage . . .
I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
I have not kept cattle away from the God's property. I have not blocked the God at his processions.
Bio I know you're not conditioned or afraid to study the other side instead your condition to question everything search nonstop against the truth and believe in nothing leading a pointless life