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First Time Steroid Cycle
- Thread starter Vizzy7
- Start date
DragonRider
Steroid Nazi
These guys make some good points. You should do some more research before you start. If you read the stickies at the beginning of this forum it will answer a lot of questions for you. Check out spotinjections.com for information on where to inject. Try not to inject in the same muscle more than once per week to help minimize scar tissue. Since this is your first injectable cycle you should start with 400 to 500mg of test per week for 10 to 12 weeks. Save the winnie for another cycle. It's not like you wasted your money. Steroids increase nitrogen retention. The bottom line is, without enough quality food and especially protein, there is not any fuel for the steroids to work. If you do this cycle correctly, you should have no problems gaining 20 to 30 pounds.Vizzy7 said:
bumping what the others have said and also would like to add that your diet will be the deciding factor on how much you gain. you could pump your body full of steroids but without proper nutritional planning it will be a waste.
have you really researched just how much food you will need to eat while on cycle and afterwards to not only grow but also to maintain your gains?
generally when cycling you will need to eat at least 2x your GOAL weight in protein and 20x your goal weight in cals. carbs should be a little higher than protein and try to only take in good fats(omega 3's) which can be had from fish oil, olive oil, flax oil, etc. your diet including the timing of your meals and what you are going to eat for each meal must be planned and written down so you cab stick with it. get a good calorie counter book because if there is one thing i have seen in the years i have been on the boards, its that people always seem to think they are eating more than in reality they really are. had one guy insist to me that he was eatting 5000cals+ per day but after he gave me his exact diet for the week it turned out he was only consuming about 2800 cals and only 200grams of protein and that was why he wasnt growing on his cycle.
have you really researched just how much food you will need to eat while on cycle and afterwards to not only grow but also to maintain your gains?
generally when cycling you will need to eat at least 2x your GOAL weight in protein and 20x your goal weight in cals. carbs should be a little higher than protein and try to only take in good fats(omega 3's) which can be had from fish oil, olive oil, flax oil, etc. your diet including the timing of your meals and what you are going to eat for each meal must be planned and written down so you cab stick with it. get a good calorie counter book because if there is one thing i have seen in the years i have been on the boards, its that people always seem to think they are eating more than in reality they really are. had one guy insist to me that he was eatting 5000cals+ per day but after he gave me his exact diet for the week it turned out he was only consuming about 2800 cals and only 200grams of protein and that was why he wasnt growing on his cycle.
DragonRider
Steroid Nazi
Check out the sticky on the front page of this forum titled What to Eat on Cycle by Heavy. it will help you a lot.Vizzy7 said:
DragonRider
Steroid Nazi
Winnie is effective at 50mg per day. No reason to run it that high. Also, winnie can cause extreme pain in the joints. If this is your first inject cycle, I would save the winnie for another cycle.Vizzy7 said:
DragonRider
Steroid Nazi
There is some truth to it, but peeps still see very good results at 50mg per day especially on the first use.Vizzy7 said:
And, I still recommend against it on your first inject cycle.
DragonRider
Steroid Nazi
Now if you can get some Dbol and kick start the cycle with about 30mg per day for the first 4 weeks, I wouldn't object. Some of the other MODs would disagree, but that's as extreme as I would go.Vizzy7 said:
recess
Registered User
Vizzy7 said:
I just want make sure i read this right. your gonna inject test enanthate TWICE a week at 400-500mg. You really should stick to test once a week at 500mg. or split it into 2 at 250. The 80mg's of winnie and if i'm reading you correctly the 500 x 2 of the test is way too much. listen to DR bro. Be safe with what your doing. More isn't always best.
Robin Hood
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2004
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Someone on this board posted this, so i'll just past it for youVizzy7 said:
My persosonal opion is:
First: Testosterone
Second: Deca
Third: Anavar
Anavar dosent do to much for me unless I am already hard. The tablets are usally sold in 2.5mg - 5mg There are stronger ones American made 40mg but hard to get. For what they cost there not cost effective for most people. Testosterones are very cheap compared in price and you will get good gains from them. If your just starting out take Test and Deca with some D-bol. This is just my opion people may diagree with me see what other people have to say and try to learn as much as you can about the drugs you are going to use before you start your cycle
Thinking about doing steroids?? READ THIS!! Newbie Info.
Newbie Information:
Everything a Newbie needs to know before starting a cycle
Written By: Crankin'steiN From Fitnessgeared.com
HOW DO I KNOW WHEN I AM READY FOR MY FIRST CYCLE?
The general rule passed on to people is that you should reach your natural potential before starting a cycle of steroids. Obviously if everyone followed this rule, anyone who used would be almost 30 and older...... So, because everyone is not going to follow that rule, here is a rule that I think is a must! You should know how to train, diet, and rest properly to make the changes to your body that you want to obtain. Whether you want to lose fat or gain mass, you should have a good undertsanding of how to do so without the help of steroids, before you choose to use
steroids. The reason for this is because steroids are a "helper" they are not a miracle, that can transform your body well you sit on the couch. So you need to have the understanding of all the major aspects of bodybuilding, so that you can use steroids effectively.
OK, I KNOW HOW TO TRAIN, EAT AND REST. WHAT'S NEXT?
The next thing you should do is to start researching what you are going to be putting in your body, and what effects and side effects it will have. There is a plethora of information on the internet, so do some searches or research on some bodybuilding boards (my favourite: www.fitnessgeared.com). Read about different substances and what kind of effect they have. Read about the side effects of them, and what to do about unwanted side effects. Read about how to cycle them, length of cycles, and Post Cyle Therapy (PCT). Also, read about Anti-estrogens, as these are the drugs that will save you from gyno, and too much water retention. And after you have read about all of these things, then read them all over again to make sure you have absorbed what you read. When you are knowledgeable to answer the questions you had about steroids before you did your research, then you are probably ready for your first cycle.
THE FIRST CYCLE (AKA THE NEWBIE CYCLE)
*NOTE: You should have everything including post cycle therapy stuff, BEFORE you start your cycle!!
Your first step:
The first thing you will have to do is get over that fear of needles..... A cycle including nothing but oral steroids is not going to produce the results you want, period! Go to: www.spotinjections.com to research how to inject.
The Cycle - Anabolics
The most common Newbie Cycle is Testosterone Enthanate, run at 500mg per week for 10 weeks,split up into two shots per week (250mg on day 1, and on day 4). The cycle can be run with just Test. and good results should be seen. I personally like D-bol to be added with that cycle, but it doesn't need to be.
If it is added, it is run at 30mg a day for 4 weeks. The dosage should be split up during the course of the day, to keep blood levels as even as possible.
The Cycle - Anti-estrogens
An anti-estrogen (usually Nolvadex or Arimidex) will need to be purchsed to have handy in case gyno symptoms start. Itchy and sore nipples will tell you that you are getting gyno, and Nolvadex should be started (I use Nolva personally so I am showing Nolva dosages) at 60mg per day for 2 days, then 40 for one day, then 20mg for the rest of the cycle. There is one catch tho.... Nolvadex and Arimidex will only take care of estrogen driven Gyno...... Gyno that is caused by prolactin needs to be countered by using proviron. Prolactin induced gyno can occur from Trenbolone or Deca. (these are not used in your cycle so you don't have to worry about it...)
POST CYCLE THERAPY (PCT)
PCT can be run a few different ways..... I will outline on of the most common ways that it is run. If you don't want to do it this way, then it is easy enough to find an alternative way, by doing research.
2 weeks after your last shot of Test. Enth. you should be starting your PCT. The most common combo is to use clomid and nolvadex together. Clomid is run at 300mg day 1, 100mg day 2-14, and 50mg day 15-30. Nolva should be run with it at 20mg for the whole 30 days you are on clomid.
During PCT you should keep your caloric intake at or above the amount you would use for bulking. This will help you keep your gains, and stop you from going catabolic. Also you should train hard, so that you can keep your gains. Remember that you are not on any anabolics now, so you may have to bring your
volume down, and up your rest a little, so that you don't overtrain.
TIME OFF
Well now you have completed your PCT and your hormones should be getting back to normal. The general rule for time off is: TIME ON = TIME OFF. This should be followed. If you did a three month cycle, then you should wait three months after that last shot of test before doing another cycle. This will allow your
body to get back to normal and stay healthy.
--I HOPE THIS HELPS AND ANSWERS SOME QUESTIONS FOR THOSE NEW PEOPLE!!--
Here is help to create the perfect cycle!
INTRO:
So you want to create the perfect cycle for yourself. So how do you go about this? Well there’s a lot of things you need to know before you can sit down and create yourself a perfect cycle.
The most important thing you need to know is what your EXACT goals are for THIS cycle. From here you can figure out exactly what steroids are right for you and at what dosages.
BASICS:
So what about steroids, ancillaries, and other drugs do you need to know? You need to know the basics of the most popular drugs available:
Steroids
-Testosterone (Enan, Cyp, Prop, Sust, Omna)
-Deca-Durabolin/Deca
-Equipose/EQ
-Dianabol/D-bol
-Winstrol/Winny
-Anadrol/Drol
-Halotestin/Halo
-Anavar/Var
-Tren/Fina
-Primobolan/Primo
Ancillaries:
-Nolvadex/Nolva (Tamoxifen)
-Arimidex/Arim (Anastrozole)
-Femera/Fem (Letrozole)
-Aromasin (Exemestane)
-Clomid
-HCG
-Proviron (technically a steroid, but oft considered an ancillary)
-Finasteride/Propecia/Proscar
-Bromocriptine/Bromo
Other BBing/Performance Enhancing Drugs:
-Clenbuterol/Clen
-Cytomel/Cynomel/T3
-DNP
-Insulin/Slin
-Human Growth Hormone/hGH/GH
-EPO
There are of course many other types of steroids, ancillaries and sports enhancing drugs, but they are extremely rare. I won’t go into a full discussion about each of the drugs above, but will just list properties of the drugs and state which steroids have those properties:
-Large Mass Steroids: Test, Deca, Drol, Dbol and to a lesser extent: EQ, Primo
-Strength Steroids: Test, Drol, Dbol, Tren and to a lesser extent: Halo, Var
-Steroids that have low/no aromatization: Drol, EQ, Primo, Halo, Var, Tren, Winny
-Steroids that raise red blood cell count: EQ, Drol and to a lesser extent: most others
-Low-Lean Mass Steroids: Winny, Halo, Var, Tren
-Steroids with direct fat-burning properties: Test, Tren, Var
-Mostly Androgenic Steroids: Halo, Methyltest
-Mostly Anabolic Steroids: Deca, EQ, Primo, Winny, Var
-Highly Anabolic Androgens: Dbol, Drol
-Mostly even Androgenic/Anabolic Steroids: Test, Tren
-Liver Toxic Steroids: Dbol, Winny, Drol, Halo, Methyltest, Var
-Short Acting Steroids: Test Prop, Dbol, Winny, Drol, Halo, Var, Tren
-Long Acting Steroids: Test Enan, Test Cyp, Deca, EQ, Primo, Sust, Omna
-Progestins: Deca, Anadrol
-Prolactins: Tren
-Acts like an estrogen: Anadrol
-Anti-Progestin: Winny* (anecdotal evidence)
-Drugs for Mass: Slin
-Drugs for Strength: Slin, GH
-Anti-Aromatases: Arimidex, Femera, Aromasin, Proviron
-Anti-Estrogens: Nolvadex, Clomid
-Anti-Androgens: Finasteride
-Fat Burners: Clen, T3, DNP, GH
-Anti-Prolactin: Bromo
-Stimulates LH release: HCG
-Aids HPTA recovery: Clomid, Nolva, GH
-Drugs that increase red-blood cell count: EPO, GH
-Drugs that raise IGF-1: Slin, GH
THEORY:
Ok so now that you know what drugs do what, we can begin to discuss what properties a cycle should have. From there we can begin to see how these drugs can be combined to form a “stack.” The idea behind the stack is to create a synergy between the drugs involved to give an effect that’s greater than the sum of the parts.
Mass Cycles:
These are cycles were all out mass is required. Here we give no consideration to fat gain, water gain or any of that stuff. We are just looking to pack on as much muscle as possible (don’t forget, water and fat are GOOD for muscle gains).
To get all out mass, we need to attack our system from all angles. We need steroids that are highly androgenic and highly anabolic. We need steroids that are known to pack on a lot of mass. In general, steroids that do not aromatize, do not activate the AR and do not pack on a lot of mass aren’t needed. For injectables we would rather have long acting esters than short ones, as the long acting esters tend to pool up in your blood and generally leave you with more hormone at any given point. For orals we prefer those that either aromatize heavily, or cause an explosion of mass by similar estrogenic properties. The use of orals is mainly to kick off the mass cycle, gives you near instant results and puts your body in a good anabolic state when the long acting esters kick in.
With all that said the best steroids for mass are: Test Enan, Test Cyp, Deca, Dbol and Drol. Advanced users can also use things like Insulin and GH.
Cutting Cycles:
Realize that with the exception of Test, Tren and Anavar, no steroid has a direct impact on fat burning. Even Test, Tren and Var have limited effects on fat burning. You shouldn’t go into a cutting cycle with the mindset of “These steroids are going to help me loose fat.” Instead you should think of the steroids as muscle sparring. Basically you’re using them to preserve the muscle that you have, while diet, cardio and your true fat burners (like Clen, DNP and T3) work on the fat. All steroids listed above meet the first requirement; they will all help you retain muscle in a calorie deficient diet. However, if you are cutting you certainly do not want your steroids to be in the way either. Some steroids (drol) actually make it harder to loose fat. Others can bloat you up so bad that even with a low body fat percentage, most of your definition can be lost. So what we need here is steroids that are more androgenic than anabolic. We need steroids that have direct fat burning properties and steroids that do not aromatize heavily. If we do use a long acting ester, we would prefer to use one that doesn’t aromatize heavily, if the injectable does aromatize significantly, we would prefer to use a short acting ester as short acting esters don’t pool up, and an anti-aromatase would be a good idea.
Best fat burners: Clen and T3. Advanced users may also use DNP and GH
Best steroids for cutting: Test Prop, EQ, Primo, Tren, Winny, Halo, Proviron, Var
Sports/Performance Enhancing Cycles:
Now I can’t claim that I know what’s really best for a non-bodybuilding athlete. But I can take a guess and you guys that do participate in sports can probably figure it out given my explanations.
First lets looks at sports that require strength without increased mass. Obviously any “mass builder” is out the door. Any steroid that aromatizes heavily is not desirable here, as the extra water will certainly make you put on weight. Your best drugs for this purpose would be: Halo, Winny, Var and GH. If you can afford a few extra pounds (like in the offseason or what not), Tren would also be a good steroid.
Now let’s looks at cycles for sports that require endurance. As we’ve discussed before, some steroids increase red blood cell count significantly; this equals better endurance performance. The best drugs to use for this purpose are EQ, GH and EPO. Because EPO can have such a drastic effect on red blood cell count, it is NOT recommended that you use it along with steroids.
POST-CYCLE THERAPY (PCT):
When you use any steroid, your HPTA will be suppressed. What this means is that your system is not producing any endogenous testosterone, which means you, won’t have any hormone to help maintain your gains. What good is a cycle if you can’t keep your gains? So the key to cycling is to get your endogenous test back on track ASAP.
One thing that will hinder HPTA activation is excess estrogen, whether it is from aromatizable steroids used in your cycle or whether it be endogenous estrogen. Using anti-estrogens like Clomid and Nolva will help prevent this negative feedback.
When your body sends out LH (leutinizing hormone), it signals your testicles to begin producing test again. During your cycle, LH release will be suppressed and will remain suppressed for a few weeks after your cycle. HCG mimics LH and helps your testicles start producing testosterone. For our purposes we should view HCG as a “bridge” between your cycle and the time your LH returns to normal function. However, HCG when used to heavily or for too long will actually suppress natural test production so it can be counter productive.
Different cycles will suppress your HPTA to different degrees. Cycles including Deca and Fina will be more suppressive than cycles including Var and Primo. I don’t have the energy to design a post cycle therapy for each cycle, so I will post here a post cycle therapy program that should help you recover from any sane and sensible cycle.
Before we outline the universal post-cycle therapy, we need to define when a cycle officially ends. If you are using long acting esters, your cycle ends 2-3 weeks after you take your last shot of the long ester (I wont explain why, just accept it). If you are using ONLY short acting steroids OR your last shot of long acting steroids was over 3 weeks ago, and the only thing you’ve been running since then is short acting steroids, then your cycle officially ends the last day of administration of your steroids.
So given that, here is the universal post-cycle recovery program:
HCG
2 Weeks Before End of Cycle: HCG @ 1500IUs 3 times a week
1 Week Before End of Cycle: HCG @ 1500IUs 3 times a week
First Week Post-Cycle: HCG @ 1500IUs 2 times a week
Clomid
Day 1 Post Cycle: Clomid @ 300mg
Days 2-14: Clomid @ 100mg ED
Days 15-28: Clomid @ 50mg ED
Nolva
Days 1-28: Nolva @ 20mg ED
recess
Registered User
pincrusher said:
Thanks pincrusher. Hope to have diet laid out this week. I will post it for review with goals.
If this is your first cycle and all you had was the test and winny i would go with the 60 mgs of winny and do the 500mg of test in one shot. test has a long life so you'll be fine with injecting it once a week. I would also go with DR's response with the Dbol. i'd kick start the cycle with that since it's gonna take the test and winny a couple weeks time to kick in. Also i was advised that taking too many orals especially in a first cycle isn't recommended.
oracle said:
im going to slightly dissagree with the once a week shot of test e. although test enanthate has a long 1/2 life you would still want to split it into 2 shots per week. the main reason for this is because you want to try and keep your bloodlevels as even as possible. with once per wek injections, you will see peaks and valleys that will be to high and this will tend to cause side affects worse than if you keep bloodlevels more even. a good example of this is when i use tren ace. although it can easily be injected eod, i still inject it ed because when i use the eod schedule i get a worse case of mood swings and sore nipples than when i inject it ed.
i would recommend a sun/wed or mon/thurs injection schedule with 1/2 the total amount of test injected each time.