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Research Study

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BrownUniversity

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Nov 11, 2004
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Dear Bodybuilders/steroid users:

I am a student at The College of Brown University. I am conducting research for a research paper on the role steroids play in men and masculinities studies. The goal of the research will be to better understand the intersection of masculine personnas with the use of steroids, particularly exogenous testosterone.

I would like to have as many people reply as possible, the stipulations being those who are male, currently or prior CHRONIC users of steroids, particularly pure testosterone (although other precursor steroids are fine as well). I would prefer to have individuals who are younger; however, older individuals will work too. You may respond to all or any of the questions.

You can respond to this survey through one of two ways. You may email anecdotal responses to an email address that I answer: [email protected] or alternatively, you may respond to the questions I will post on this thread. I'd prefer you to respond to me through email, particularly to keep your identity anonymous; however, public posting is fine too.

1.) In what ways does taking steroids increase your 'sense' of being a 'man'?

2.) Along those lines, do you feel especially more virile just after having given yourself an injection of T cyp or applied a T gel?

3.) What got you started taking steroids, how long have you taken them, and how long do you plan to continue using?

4.) What do you define as 'masculine' in terms of male bodies, and do you believe that taking steroids helps you achieve the male adonis so to speak?

5.) Do you take steroids because you feel pressure from society to be 'more of a man'?

6.) Although many individuals take steroids solely for bodybuilding purposes, others take the drugs to enchance their masculinity in very tangible ways. Physicians feel this is dangerous. During this process, side effects can take their toll over a period of years, particularly since there have been no longitudinal studies which have shown that increasing exogenous T levels beyond what is normal is safe. On one website someone mentioned that Arnold who used 'roids' for years has had no health problems. However, what is interesting is that the oldest users of roids are only now approaching their 60s—an age too young to judge whether insidious diseases like neoplasia will ensue. Other studies have shown exogenous supraphysiologic doses of hGH do increase the risk for neoplasia, at least in some regard. Despite the various possibilities of increased risk for neoplasia, metabolic changes, and CVD, does the idea of being more masculine trump these risks?

7.) Do you ever experience 'roid rage' or other instances of male aggression while taking steroids, and if so, do you feel the additional feelings of anger are a positive or negative side effect?

8.) From what I can tell, obtaining hGH and pure testosterone is extremely easy in the United States. That said, aren't costs prohibitive, since gel forms of testosterone can run more than $100 monthly? Also, growth hormone can be extremely expensive. How much do you spend on these drugs, and how do you afford them?

9.) Many individuals who take steroids continue to attempt to monitor their health through testing. How do you get tested periodically (let's say every 3 months) for cholesterol, HDL, LDL, T, bio T, LH, FSH, PRL, T3, T4, TSH, IGF1, etc, if you test normal on that first draw? To word this better: why would a doctor "monitor" you if you are on an illegal substance? Do you have home labs in which you run serum hormonal tests? Or alternatively, are many of you physicians and or endocrinologists who can legally order these tests yourself?

10.) Finally, after taking steroids do you feel more inclined to 'check out' other male bodies? Do you find yourself particularly cognizant of the male body?

11.) The use of exogenous T obviously shuts down gonadotropin production. As a result, many men who take steroids attempt to take hCG to halt this process. Why do you think clinical endocrinologists, experts in their fields, do not treat male patients on HRT with hCG+testosterone?

12.) By shutting down the gonadotropin production, typically men will find a decrease in testicular volume (sometimes even in the face of use with hCG). Does decreased testicular volume frighten you? Do you find it paradoxical that something that 'increases' your masculinity concomittantly shrinks your testicles?

13.) Do you ever worry about fertility issues after taking steroids? Do you associate high fertility potential (as measured by semen analysis, positive fructose, etc) as an indicator manliness? In other words, is it true that men with truly 'bigger balls' are the 'bigger men'? Would you rather have small testes and big muscles or vice versa?


Given the time frame of this paper, I would like to get as many responses as soon as possible. Your anonymity will be protected, and I am not with any sort of agency. Once again, you may respond to any or all the questions so this won't be cumbersome. Thank you for your time!

-Matthew Kerry
 

dugie82

Banned
May 13, 2004
538
0
0
Texas
Matthew. If you need responses quickly, i might suggest posting this message on a larger board.(elitefitness, etc.). Mostly the fanbase is full of subscribers and new members and of course mods. That said, i think i will take the time to fill this out. Even after reading this your questions do seem to have a biased opinion to steroid usage. Perhaps more research w/ out so many judgements, none-the-less i will fill it out.

1. You could say a higher self esteem and better physique could help a person to feel 'more like a man.' The perfect male figure in bodybuilding is made out to be someone chiseled and gigantic. In a way, AAS usage can help us achieve that next step.
2. Never tried any gels, but after a shot yes it does give you a pump. But not under the lines of being more dominant.
3. After years of training your body hits a plateau, even with proper training and diet, the gains are minimal beyond that, so if you strive to have a better physique, you find a way to reach your goals.
4. Some of the BB nowadays are trained to become monsters. Taking in G's of steroids, just to be 30 pounds heavier the next year. I would much rather see more asthetic appearences rather than a 330 pound monster.
5. Definately not. The choice of beginning this was mine. It's all in terms of your own personal goals.
6. Once again, its not striving to be the 'most masculine' that keeps us involved in AAS usage. I also believe that unless you are taking an overly abusive approach. Some BB never come off it, which can make the rebound that much worse. As for the health problems, it could make you more succeptable to health risks, but unless further research supports a strong gain in health risks, it should not be an issue, expecially for those of us who will not take HGH.
7. 'Roid Rage' Is a misnomer. While you do experience higher levels of test it is purely mental. Unless you have had problems with anger in the past, it should not be an issue.
8. Once again. Gel forms? Not sure what those are, possibly a topical form of the drug? As for the prices, they are extremely skewed on your part, but we are unable to post actual prices. The money is usually supplied the same way you would support a hobby.
9. Blood tests every 3 months, meaure levels of test. thyroid, etc. Unless administered a steroid test, its tough to determine that you are on AAS, besides the obvious test level increase. Tests are ALWAYS done through a doctors office, and are usually held confidental.
10.No homosexual feelings whatsoever. An increase in test levels DOES NOT mean a change in sexual stance. You are more aware of your own body, but not obsessed.
11. I have heard of some men with chronicly low levels of test, being treated with high dosages of HCG for long periods of time. Test injected into you only puts test into your system, making the body slow the production of its own test mainly throug the testes and other organs. Mainly why your testes shrink while on AAS. HCG can help increase volume in that area.
12. If treated correctly(HCG and other drugs) your testes should remain at about the same size(at least mine have). Once again, misinformed.
13. Fertility is a big issue in the world of AAS. But i have heard of vets still being VERY fertile even while on cycle. Once again this is a thing that can be tested and treated through a doctor. I do not think that the size of your testes plays any role whatsoever as an indicator of 'manliness'.

Such biased questions, it almost seems like you are bitter of AAS usage. The world of BB is much bigger than you know it, you can't write a paper only knowing one side(your biased side) of the argument.
 

BrownUniversity

New member
Nov 11, 2004
2
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0
Dear Dugie,

Thanks for replying.

Your responses were helpful in understanding the reasons behind the use of steroids. Please do not consider my previous questions hostile in any way, and I would have no reason to be "bitter" about steroid use, given that I am not a bodybuilder myself. I do not judge steroid users in any way and I take a laissez faire approach. Instead, my questions were based off research I have done by investigating studies that have linked steroid use with health.

As for the gels, yes, I was talking about the use of AndroGel which is a topical form of pure testosterone. This is the application of choice by clinical endocrinologists in the United States for men on HRT who exhibit low T for a variety of reasons. It has been shown to be the most safe method of HRT in studies by doctors and Professors of Medicine at the Research and Education Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical center, the Division of Endocrinology.

Just to understand more clearly: for you, steroid use is not about becoming more of a man but simply a hobby that involves becoming 'the best' that you can be.

I have some questions in regards to question 9. You mentioned that you do get tested every 3 months for screening such as thyroid, T, etc. Once again, I am confused how you get the doctor to order these tests which can cost your insurance companies upwards of $500 for these tests (every 3 months) if you do not have a medical condition that necessitates the tests? I doubt most doctors would order those tests every 3 months unless you were on HRT under their guidance. This only drives up insurance rates for PPOs and HMOs given that their is no medical indication for the tests. Given that doctors, more than ever today, are especially cognizant of over-testing, I find it difficult to believe that physicians would order tests unless you are paying out of pocket for these tests and insurance isn't reimbursing, and even then, I don't know that physicians would order the tests.

I have spoken with endocrinologists. The endocrinologists tell me that even men who have chronically low T are not treated with HCG because there is evidence to suggest that this accelerates primary hypogonadism or hypergonadoptropic hypogonadism. Instead, gonadoptropin shutdown is the preferred method through exogenous T alone without the use of HCG. You mention "other drugs" when you speak of HCG. Are you speaking of synthetic follicle stimulating hormone (Puregon)?

I do understand your point about HGH and how AAS are less dangerous than HGH.

Thanks!

-Matthew
 

Stumpy_41

Registered User
Sep 29, 2004
61
0
0
SE Washington State
Two thoughts here:

10a.) Finally, after taking steroids do you feel more inclined to 'check out' other male bodies?

- If the assumption is correct, that genetics are responsible for sexual preference, (or we are predetermined at birth in our sexual disposition) then I cannot see how this question could be anything but .. NO!

- If we are not genetically predisposed to our sexual inclinations then those factors that would contribute to same sex behaviors would be indeterminable, IMHO. Every case would require a myriad of reasons/circumstances that would always leave one wondering why .. .

(10b.) Do you find yourself particularly cognizant of the male body?

I think the very nature of "bodybuilding", and those who participate in this realm, are more cognizant of "bodies". I personally find myself looking at pretty much "everyone" in regard to their level of fitness. I always have looked at "bodies" .. and find I do this no more or less while on cycle or off.

Where the idea came from that hanging around members of the same sex, in fitness activities, can somehow influence sexual choices or dispositions, IMHO, stems from those fat ass, Archie Bunker, couch potates .. that have to find some lame excuse for not taking care of their physiques.
 

DragonRider

Steroid Nazi
Jan 25, 2004
3,718
0
0
The shadows of your mind
Stumpy_41 said:
Two thoughts here:

10a.) Finally, after taking steroids do you feel more inclined to 'check out' other male bodies?

- If the assumption is correct, that genetics are responsible for sexual preference, (or we are predetermined at birth in our sexual disposition) then I cannot see how this question could be anything but .. NO!

- If we are not genetically predisposed to our sexual inclinations then those factors that would contribute to same sex behaviors would be indeterminable, IMHO. Every case would require a myriad of reasons/circumstances that would always leave one wondering why .. .

(10b.) Do you find yourself particularly cognizant of the male body?

I think the very nature of "bodybuilding", and those who participate in this realm, are more cognizant of "bodies". I personally find myself looking at pretty much "everyone" in regard to their level of fitness. I always have looked at "bodies" .. and find I do this no more or less while on cycle or off.

Where the idea came from that hanging around members of the same sex, in fitness activities, can somehow influence sexual choices or dispositions, IMHO, stems from those fat ass, Archie Bunker, couch potates .. that have to find some lame excuse for not taking care of their physiques.
I think 10a and 10b can be summarized this way. Whether we understand it or not, I believe it is a primal urge to size up any and every male we initially make contact with. This has nothing to do with steroid use. EVERY male does it. It doesn't matter if you work at a jeans and t-shirt job or a $1000 dollar suit job. Every male subconciously sizes up other men by checking out their build first. Other things come into play after that, such as testing their intelligence, but that is another issue. Some are more concious or aware that they do it. I believe this is a survival instinct when a male approaches another male. Subconciously sizing up another male determines in your own mind who the dominant male is and what your response will be in case of sudden attack. Do I run or stay and fight?


With that said, the most important thing is this. This is an UNDERGROUND movement and it is underground because it is illegal.
THIS PAPER IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF EXPOSURE WE DON'T NEED OR WANT. Like you said, you don't even do steroids. For you this is just a grade on a paper. For us this is a lifestyle getting more exposure than it needs through your paper, thus threatening our very lifestyle.
 
Last edited:

dugie82

Banned
May 13, 2004
538
0
0
Texas
BrownUniversity said:
Dear Dugie,

Thanks for replying.

Your responses were helpful in understanding the reasons behind the use of steroids. Please do not consider my previous questions hostile in any way, and I would have no reason to be "bitter" about steroid use, given that I am not a bodybuilder myself. I do not judge steroid users in any way and I take a laissez faire approach. Instead, my questions were based off research I have done by investigating studies that have linked steroid use with health.

As for the gels, yes, I was talking about the use of AndroGel which is a topical form of pure testosterone. This is the application of choice by clinical endocrinologists in the United States for men on HRT who exhibit low T for a variety of reasons. It has been shown to be the most safe method of HRT in studies by doctors and Professors of Medicine at the Research and Education Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical center, the Division of Endocrinology.

Just to understand more clearly: for you, steroid use is not about becoming more of a man but simply a hobby that involves becoming 'the best' that you can be.

I have some questions in regards to question 9. You mentioned that you do get tested every 3 months for screening such as thyroid, T, etc. Once again, I am confused how you get the doctor to order these tests which can cost your insurance companies upwards of $500 for these tests (every 3 months) if you do not have a medical condition that necessitates the tests? I doubt most doctors would order those tests every 3 months unless you were on HRT under their guidance. This only drives up insurance rates for PPOs and HMOs given that their is no medical indication for the tests. Given that doctors, more than ever today, are especially cognizant of over-testing, I find it difficult to believe that physicians would order tests unless you are paying out of pocket for these tests and insurance isn't reimbursing, and even then, I don't know that physicians would order the tests.

I have spoken with endocrinologists. The endocrinologists tell me that even men who have chronically low T are not treated with HCG because there is evidence to suggest that this accelerates primary hypogonadism or hypergonadoptropic hypogonadism. Instead, gonadoptropin shutdown is the preferred method through exogenous T alone without the use of HCG. You mention "other drugs" when you speak of HCG. Are you speaking of synthetic follicle stimulating hormone (Puregon)?

I do understand your point about HGH and how AAS are less dangerous than HGH.

Thanks!

-Matthew


If you want i can pull the medical bills out or bring back several threads pertaining to HCG usage of men w/ low test. I suggest we lock this thread? Guy seems like he's looking for trouble, if these are not the answers you are looking for, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
 
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