Looking for thoughts on training age and volume

[chicken_hawk]

Got a question regarding training age (years training) and volume of workload. Now, I know everyone requires a different workload so let's just say the question is relative.

Here we go, we all know work capacity increases the longer you train which means you can handle more volume. On the flip side the greater the load as well as the increased efficiency that comes from years of training equals more stress on the body. So basically a beginner squatting 135 can not put the stress on their body as a experienced lifter squatting 500lbs.

So, how does that effect the volume as one training age increases. Currently, I operate under the assumption that most gym rats have no idea in he(( why they do what they do and most would progress faster with less work. And no I am not promoting DC here, just trying to get some other opinions on the theory so I can fine tune my own thinking on the matter.

Hawk

 

[AtomAnt]

Chicken hawk,

I feel there is more to this than simply being able to handle a greater load and train with increased efficiency. I also feel there is a joint health component (as well as other factors associated with aging).

So yes, as one becomes more experienced they may be able to use less volume, BUT, it needs to be balanced with what one is able to handle due to joint health and other potential health factors that come with again and this lifestyle. There is a point when the workload lends itself to diminishing returns and then one most back off on the intensity and increase volume in order to generate progressive overload.

I also feel there are certain individual training proclivities that lend volume or high intensity better for one person than another. Some individuals need a lot of variety or they just get sick of training, other like to grind out on a given exercise and truly feel like they beat the hell out themselves on just a few sets.

I also feel that as one decreases volume, one should increase frequency. Right now I have decreased my workload per bodypart for each session, but every 4 days that bodypart get hit again, but with different exercise. It is not DC, but definitely DC inspired.

 

[chicken_hawk]

Chicken hawk,

I feel there is more to this than simply being able to handle a greater load and train with increased efficiency. I also feel there is a joint health component (as well as other factors associated with aging).

So yes, as one becomes more experienced they may be able to use less volume, BUT, it needs to be balanced with what one is able to handle due to joint health and other potential health factors that come with again and this lifestyle. There is a point when the workload lends itself to diminishing returns and then one most back off on the intensity and increase volume in order to generate progressive overload.

I also feel there are certain individual training proclivities that lend volume or high intensity better for one person than another. Some individuals need a lot of variety or they just get sick of training, other like to grind out on a given exercise and truly feel like they beat the hell out themselves on just a few sets.

I also feel that as one decreases volume, one should increase frequency. Right now I have decreased my workload per bodypart for each session, but every 4 days that bodypart get hit again, but with different exercise. It is not DC, but definitely DC inspired.

I agree there are a variety of physiological factors that come into play as well as as an individuals bent for volume. However, all things being equal do you feel that the more one advances the less total volume one needs.

Btw. Looks like I should have put dbol in the title lol.

Hawk

 

[AtomAnt]

I agree there are a variety of physiological factors that come into play as well as as an individuals bent for volume. However, all things being equal do you feel that the more one advances the less total volume one needs.

Btw. Looks like I should have put dbol in the title lol.

Hawk

CH, I feel that it is rue to a point, essentially I feel there is a U shaped curve with an inverted U shaped curved on top of it. The U shaped curve is the volume. So, if you can picture it, the horizontal axis is time (training age) the vertical axis is volume. As one gains more experience in the gym I feel they need less volume, BUT this ONLY happens if the other curve is in place.

The inverted U has training age on the horizontal axis and weight used on the vertical axis. So as weight used goes up, which generally occurs with an increase in training age given someone follows the belief that progressive overload is key to muscle growth, one can decrease the volume of their training.

So you have two factors, increased weight and training efficiency (ability to push to failure and beyond failure, e.g. negatives, partials, bands... etc) that determine how much volume one may need.

Now, the down slop of the curve is when thigs like joints become troublesome and one can no longer train with as heavy of a weight due to pain or injuries. In this case, one may need to increase volume again to accommodate for the reduced weight in order to continue to grow.

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this thread, I never got the pop up on my phone that you quoted me....

LOL, yes, some of us get our rocks off discussing nutrition and training, other do with drugs...

 

[lycan Venom]

Hawk n Atom... what's up bros? been a while since you both posted, how you guys doing? thread jacked!

 

[AtomAnt]

Hawk n Atom... what's up bros? been a while since you both posted, how you guys doing? thread jacked!

C'mon man... I've been posting more lol

 

[chicken_hawk]

Hawk n Atom... what's up bros? been a while since you both posted, how you guys doing? thread jacked!

Hey Lycan, I've been posting just in dying threads. These days I more interest in diet and training then cycle talk.

Hawk

 

[chicken_hawk]

CH, I feel that it is rue to a point, essentially I feel there is a U shaped curve with an inverted U shaped curved on top of it. The U shaped curve is the volume. So, if you can picture it, the horizontal axis is time (training age) the vertical axis is volume. As one gains more experience in the gym I feel they need less volume, BUT this ONLY happens if the other curve is in place.

The inverted U has training age on the horizontal axis and weight used on the vertical axis. So as weight used goes up, which generally occurs with an increase in training age given someone follows the belief that progressive overload is key to muscle growth, one can decrease the volume of their training.

So you have two factors, increased weight and training efficiency (ability to push to failure and beyond failure, e.g. negatives, partials, bands... etc) that determine how much volume one may need.

Now, the down slop of the curve is when thigs like joints become troublesome and one can no longer train with as heavy of a weight due to pain or injuries. In this case, one may need to increase volume again to accommodate for the reduced weight in order to continue to grow.

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this thread, I never got the pop up on my phone that you quoted me....

LOL, yes, some of us get our rocks off discussing nutrition and training, other do with drugs...

I can't find anything that I disagree with (awesome summary btw) but would add after searching through various posts on the subject would add sort of a caveat on how training age and real age are related. It appears to me that there is a sort of, life span of gains and that overlaps real age and the issues that are related to it. So, if someone starts when they are say 20 amd trains for 20 years then gains will really start to slow down since they are approaching their full potential. However, is someone starts later in life then that threshold changes and they may see gains well into their 40s and 50s.

There is some research on people making gainz into old age, they were previously untrained. However, real world examples abound. Bbers and plers usually peak in their late 30s early 40s before the toll of all that steel catch up. However, I have read posts of plers who started in their late 30s make gains into their 50s.

Hawk

 

[AtomAnt]

I can't find anything that I disagree with (awesome summary btw) but would add after searching through various posts on the subject would add sort of a caveat on how training age and real age are related. It appears to me that there is a sort of, life span of gains and that overlaps real age and the issues that are related to it. So, if someone starts when they are say 20 amd trains for 20 years then gains will really start to slow down since they are approaching their full potential. However, is someone starts later in life then that threshold changes and they may see gains well into their 40s and 50s.

There is some research on people making gainz into old age, they were previously untrained. However, real world examples abound. Bbers and plers usually peak in their late 30s early 40s before the toll of all that steel catch up. However, I have read posts of plers who started in their late 30s make gains into their 50s.

Hawk

A very true caveat indeed... and you can only build muscle when you have "gainz" That is scientifically proven

 

[pesty4077]

You can make gains even at 55, it depends on a few factors. DIET, Training and the right gear. At this age, I am looking more to just looking good and lean, putting muscle on will take a long time, but it can be done.

I like a 4 day split. Training every body part twice a week. I do warm ups and stretching at the end. This helps a lot. I stick with 2 different exercises per body part. Different ones in the beginning and at the end of week. I try to do heavy movements in the beginning and lighter at the end of week. I try also not to go under 8 reps. This helps me recuperate faster and keeps pains away. I like to do a routine for 12 weeks, followed by 8 weeks and training 1 bodypart at 3 days per week. I don't have pain in my body, so this works for me. I can also grow from this. You still have to put the work in and I like training faster and less rest in between sets. Your DIET has to be on point too.

 

[GottaGain]

I've gone back to training with less total number of sets per workout. Felt like with more volume it got to the point where I was just going through the motions. Now I'm more focused on making every rep count and better able to recover from my workouts.

 

[rangerjockey]

There is some good information passed along here. I am 48 now and what I have learned about training at an older age is more patience and smarter lifting. It is kinda like a Bell Curve, you start young and are hungry by the time you in your mid 20's -30's you are typically lifting heavier weight consistently. (Peak of Bell Curve)

As I aged (lower side of Bell Curve) I am much more strict in form and using lighter weight with higher reps. Diet and nutrition plays a much more important role in terms of being stricter. I have noticed my (mens) physique's later in body building life look more symetirical and mature. Of course there are exceptions to the case here. Some older guys are still lifting heavy. Personally, and ex-football/baseball player im no my 4th surgery (knees and shoulders) So I have to modify my weight.

 

[The Grim Repper]

I do whatever it takes that day to get the job done. Some days I'm stronger, some weaker, so whatever stimulates the muscle is where I want to be.

 

[chicken_hawk]

You can make gains even at 55, it depends on a few factors. DIET, Training and the right gear. At this age, I am looking more to just looking good and lean, putting muscle on will take a long time, but it can be done.

I like a 4 day split. Training every body part twice a week. I do warm ups and stretching at the end. This helps a lot. I stick with 2 different exercises per body part. Different ones in the beginning and at the end of week. I try to do heavy movements in the beginning and lighter at the end of week. I try also not to go under 8 reps. This helps me recuperate faster and keeps pains away. I like to do a routine for 12 weeks, followed by 8 weeks and training 1 bodypart at 3 days per week. I don't have pain in my body, so this works for me. I can also grow from this. You still have to put the work in and I like training faster and less rest in between sets. Your DIET has to be on point too.

You make a good point in that once pass the 40 threshold it seams the mobility and preventative maintenance become more critical. It seams that not only does one put a lot of wear and tear on the body from years of iron, but age does change things such as tendon elasticity etc...

Hawk

 

[chicken_hawk]

I've gone back to training with less total number of sets per workout. Felt like with more volume it got to the point where I was just going through the motions. Now I'm more focused on making every rep count and better able to recover from my workouts.

I agree, I think early on we do volume for the fear of not doing enough. Then we realize we can do less a get more if it's quality.

Hawk

 

[chicken_hawk]

There is some good information passed along here. I am 48 now and what I have learned about training at an older age is more patience and smarter lifting. It is kinda like a Bell Curve, you start young and are hungry by the time you in your mid 20's -30's you are typically lifting heavier weight consistently. (Peak of Bell Curve)

As I aged (lower side of Bell Curve) I am much more strict in form and using lighter weight with higher reps. Diet and nutrition plays a much more important role in terms of being stricter. I have noticed my (mens) physique's later in body building life look more symetirical and mature. Of course there are exceptions to the case here. Some older guys are still lifting heavy. Personally, and ex-football/baseball player im no my 4th surgery (knees and shoulders) So I have to modify my weight.

Yeah, age does catch up to an athlete whether it be sports or simply the work we do. Guys who work with their hands for a living pay a price in the gym in later years as well.

Hawk

 

[chicken_hawk]

I do whatever it takes that day to get the job done. Some days I'm stronger, some weaker, so whatever stimulates the muscle is where I want to be.

I train similar aka auto-regulation. When I have gas I put the pedal down, when it's not there I let up.

Hawk

 

[pesty4077]

You make a good point in that once pass the 40 threshold it seams the mobility and preventative maintenance become more critical. It seams that not only does one put a lot of wear and tear on the body from years of iron, but age does change things such as tendon elasticity etc...

Hawk

I been training for 35 years. I had more pains and aches in my early 30's then now. That is when I was competing and lifting extremely heavy. I learn to stop abusing my body, and making it grow by using my head. I now feel better then ever. I think Grim reaper said it best. Some days you can train heavier, some days you have to train lighter. Know when your body is telling you it needs a rest. Every 3 to 4 months, I take a week off too and go on vacation and eat what I want. Then back to eating strict and training with the right mind set.

 

[chicken_hawk]

Every 3 to 4 months, I take a week off too and go on vacation and eat what I want. Then back to eating strict and training with the right mind set.

Now, you're speaking my language

Hawk