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Liver Protection?

mightymo51

Registered User
Jan 21, 2006
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In my next cycle I will be taking winny tabs at 50mg ed for 6 weeks. I know that liv52 is good, but what about some of the other liver protectors that are sold in supplement stores. I know I can get liv52 online very easily, just wondering if anything else worked as good.
 

powermad

Registered User
Dec 4, 2005
166
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I've only used Liv-52 once, but the following 3 supps (in order of effectiveness, IMO) are what I use when doing methylated orals.

NAC=N-Acetyl-Cysteine. It is a stable form of the amino acid L-cysteine and works to increase the body's gluthanione levels--very good for the liver. NAC is used in hospitals to reverse the effects of Tylenol overdoses. 1000mg per day works well, I recommend it as it is cheap, free of side-effects, and effective.

R-ALA=Racemic-Alpha Lipoic Acid. This is the R-isomer of ALA, which has been shown to provide all of the good effects that ALA exerts. The S-isomer (both the S and R-isomers are present in "regular" alpha lipoic acid) actually negates some of the actions of the R-isomer. Anyway, Alpha Lipoic Acid is a potent anti-oxidant and regenerates other anti-oxidants such as Vitamin C, vitamin E, and Gluthanione (after scavenging free-radicals). It helps glucose transport as well and is good for detoxification. 400-600mg per day is what I take when on orals.

Milk Thistle--this is pretty much common knowledge. It supposedly protects the liver, I don't know enough about it to elaborate but it is probably the most popular "liver support" supplement you can buy. 600mg of the 80% extract (i.e. 480mg extract) is the recommended daily dose.

I've had bloodwork done before/after methylated oral only cycles and before I started using these three supps on cycles my liver enzymes were elevated pretty high. After I found out about these supplements and started using them on cycle and during PCT my blood work showed much lower elevations in liver enzymes, particularly ALT/AST levels, so they do work, at least for me.

Hope this helps.
 

ORACLE

Perfection Personifide
Dec 7, 2004
3,069
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Tx
Alot of people use liv-52 i used Milk Thistle in the past. I personally think that if you use recommended dosages for the right amount of time you won't have to worry about the effects on your liver.
 

stealthmeister

Registered User
Sep 9, 2005
342
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Up North
Hey Powermad. That's the first time I've seen somebody mention N-acetyl cysteine here. Very good thought and post. Not to mention that N-AC is probably the most substantiated in medical literature, in comparison to the supplements like Liv and Milk Thistle which have few studies on them and the ones that do show up on a medline search usually involve very small series of patients / volunteers, thus making the results questionable.

The standard dosing protocol for N-AC in acetominophen (tylenol) overdose is to start it within 8 hrs of ingestion at an initial oral dose of 140mg/kg, then give 70mg/kg every 4 hrs for 17 doses (72 hrs). In Europe it is given IV and maintained for 48 hrs. Anyways, so even a "maintenance dose" of 70/kg for someone of average 70 kg size (likely not many people on this board) is 4900mg (4.9 gm) every 4 hrs. Thus, a daily dose of 1000mg per day to try to avoid some of the cholestatic effects of oral AAS likely would not cause any problems.

Having said that, acetominophen overdose is specifically a hepatocellular toxicity (damages the liver cells themselves) without significant bile duct injury (cholestasis), whereas liver damage from oral AAS is more a cholestatic injury due to damage to the bile ducts, causing obstruction of bile outflow from within the tiny bile ducts within the liver. In fact, AAS liver injury is called "pure cholestasis", in that it is usually not associated with damage / necrosis to the liver cells themselves. This is seen with oral contraceptives, oral AAS, and even tamoxifen (nolva). Thus, I'm not sure how much N-AC will specifically inhibit AAS-specific liver / small bile duct injury. As an aside, some drugs that cause a mixed picture of cholestasis and liver cell necrosis would include septra (antibiotic), captopril (for high BP), etc.
 
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