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Hcg
- Thread starter Moranitotongano
- Start date
shoot it right into your balls and your good to go buddy. Only problem is you have to use a 20 gage needle. Just kidding bro dont really do that.
DragonRider
Steroid Nazi
Look at number 4 at this thread.
http://www.123steroids.com/vB/showthread.php?t=5088&highlight=swale
The following is a brief exerpt.
This is the recommendation from Swale, a hormone replacement doctor on some bodybuilding boards. He's a dick, but he does know what he is talking about.
I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
http://www.123steroids.com/vB/showthread.php?t=5088&highlight=swale
The following is a brief exerpt.
This is the recommendation from Swale, a hormone replacement doctor on some bodybuilding boards. He's a dick, but he does know what he is talking about.
I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
DragonRider
Steroid Nazi
a-bomb83 said:
Isn't that what we're all striving for?
He was being facetious. DR
Last edited by a moderator:
Here is some more info from Swale (Dr. John) on HCG
There are other reasons to take HCG than merely staving off testicular atrophy.
LH, and therefore its analog HCG, stimulates the enzyme (P450 SCC) which converts CHOL to pregnenolone. This is the first step in the three metabolic pathways which result not only in production of the sex steroids, but also mineralcorticoids (aldosterone, which maintains hydration balance) and the corticosteroids (mediators of inflammation and immune function). My feeling is that stimulating all these pathways results in a more natural, healthy hormonal milieu, especially in cases of HPTA suppression. All of the hormones are important, or they wouldn’t be here in the first place. We certainly do not know all of the effects and interactions of this hormonal “symphony”, and I prefer to excite the pathways with a bit of HCG (as opposed to presenting almost no LH to the P450 SCC enzyme) just in case.
Some anecdotal proof is offered by my AAS patients who use HCG regularly, during their cycles. They report they “just feel better” using this protocol. Many have also said they are avoiding that edgy, burned-out feeling you can get while on a heavy cycle.
I also believe it is better to maintain the form and function of the testes, rather than letting them atrophy away from non-use. Again, this just seems like common sense to me.
HCG taken appropriately (not too much at a time) will not cause any concerns as far as elevating estrogen. I always maintain E near the middle of normal range, though, so we have a bit of a buffer anyway. How much is too much? IMPO, anything more than 500IU at a time. My usual dose in HRT patients is 250IU, twice per week.
HCG sure will elevate T levels, that is what it does. Again, if it is used in small dosages, you shouldn’t be pushing T above the top of normal range. Given weekly testosterone cypionate dosing, and given the half-life of the cypionate ester, administering HCG the day of, and the day immediately previous to, the test cyp injection helps boost the slowly falling serum T level back up. Therefore, a protocol such as mine produces more stable serum T levels, too.
I’ve never heard any other HRT doctors describe their use of HCG in these ways, but it sure does make sense to me. My patients really like it, and that is very important, too.
I sure do agree with PS: there is something VERY special about the testosterone you produce from your own testicles.
I’m not sure where Mr. Montana is coming from, but he is in direct opposition to all we know, both from the laboratory and via clinical experience, about HCG.
Many, if not most, men ARE HPTA suppressed while on TRT. If someone is not suppressed at 100mg per week of test cyp IM, then all I can say is “Good for you!”
I do not believe that HCG used twice per week at 250, or even 500IU, will induce LH resistance.
Certainly an aesthetic consideration for maintaining testicular size is valid. However, I believe there are even better reasons.
There are other reasons to take HCG than merely staving off testicular atrophy.
LH, and therefore its analog HCG, stimulates the enzyme (P450 SCC) which converts CHOL to pregnenolone. This is the first step in the three metabolic pathways which result not only in production of the sex steroids, but also mineralcorticoids (aldosterone, which maintains hydration balance) and the corticosteroids (mediators of inflammation and immune function). My feeling is that stimulating all these pathways results in a more natural, healthy hormonal milieu, especially in cases of HPTA suppression. All of the hormones are important, or they wouldn’t be here in the first place. We certainly do not know all of the effects and interactions of this hormonal “symphony”, and I prefer to excite the pathways with a bit of HCG (as opposed to presenting almost no LH to the P450 SCC enzyme) just in case.
Some anecdotal proof is offered by my AAS patients who use HCG regularly, during their cycles. They report they “just feel better” using this protocol. Many have also said they are avoiding that edgy, burned-out feeling you can get while on a heavy cycle.
I also believe it is better to maintain the form and function of the testes, rather than letting them atrophy away from non-use. Again, this just seems like common sense to me.
HCG taken appropriately (not too much at a time) will not cause any concerns as far as elevating estrogen. I always maintain E near the middle of normal range, though, so we have a bit of a buffer anyway. How much is too much? IMPO, anything more than 500IU at a time. My usual dose in HRT patients is 250IU, twice per week.
HCG sure will elevate T levels, that is what it does. Again, if it is used in small dosages, you shouldn’t be pushing T above the top of normal range. Given weekly testosterone cypionate dosing, and given the half-life of the cypionate ester, administering HCG the day of, and the day immediately previous to, the test cyp injection helps boost the slowly falling serum T level back up. Therefore, a protocol such as mine produces more stable serum T levels, too.
I’ve never heard any other HRT doctors describe their use of HCG in these ways, but it sure does make sense to me. My patients really like it, and that is very important, too.
I sure do agree with PS: there is something VERY special about the testosterone you produce from your own testicles.
I’m not sure where Mr. Montana is coming from, but he is in direct opposition to all we know, both from the laboratory and via clinical experience, about HCG.
Many, if not most, men ARE HPTA suppressed while on TRT. If someone is not suppressed at 100mg per week of test cyp IM, then all I can say is “Good for you!”
I do not believe that HCG used twice per week at 250, or even 500IU, will induce LH resistance.
Certainly an aesthetic consideration for maintaining testicular size is valid. However, I believe there are even better reasons.
